More visibility for 'kink' - this is so disturbing.

[Novina]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/feb/09/kink-anthology-book-fear-shame

"In the meantime, despite its increasing visibility on social media and dating apps, kink is still generally thought to be unfit for the public eye. Unfit for children, especially, as in the recurring argument that kinky attire should not be visible at Pride parades, which echoes the old, bad argument that any signs of queerness should be kept out of sight of minors. But consider what it might do to a person, whether child or adult, to primarily see one’s sexual desires represented in the flattened form of a punchline or stock villain. To see and hear, in the books and shows and movies that can constitute much of our experience of the world, that one either doesn’t exist, or shouldn’t."

The 'k' are borrowing language from the lgb to push for more visibility, even wrt children.

Honestly, do what you like - with, or without, consenting adults in private - I don't care. But I do not consent to being part of it if you bring it into public life. This determination to get children involved, as if it's good for them, is a huge red flag.

This is one reason I can't stand the queer theory approach of blurring, or transgressing, boundaries. Yes, some boundaries have been bad and needed challenging, but others are there for very good reasons.

@zanahoria

which echoes the old, bad argument that any signs of queerness should be kept out of sight of minors"

I have become very suspicious anyone who argues by analogy, this is so wrong that it beggars belief that anyone can make the claim. There is a world of differences between any signs of queerness e. g gay men holding hands or kissing and explicit sexual display.

I have met a few kink types and always found them to the most tedious bores about their hobby, so many believe it makes them me sort of brave sexual adventurer. I can out up with that if I have to but not this.

We see you.

We know the trick you are trying to play

making yourself out to be victims

it will not work

I'd just like to state, for the record, I'm much more likely to bore on about food. Or knitting. Or feminism. Tyvm

I think op has misrepresented the article which is mostly about kink in literature.

Children are mentioned once. Its worth remembering that children are exposed to a lot of sexual imagery which is there to appeal to straight, vanilla men. I’d rather there was less sexual imagery in the media in general but sex sells so it’s here to stay. I don’t see how a woman in a bikini with someone else’s hair attached to her head, painted orange, with fillers injected into her lips, extra breasts surgically added, wearing stilts, teeth bleached and eyelashes the size of brooms glued to her face could be any less perverse than a person representing a kink. I’m not even sure what a person representing a kink would look like, the article seems to be saying not someone in leather or wearing a leash because those are cliches that the article warns against. Any guesses?

@LurkyMcLurkLurk

Am I horribly naive or old fashioned for doubting the OkCupid survey mentioned when results show: "71% of members are into kink, 62% of women are into rough sex, and 51% of women are into bondage"?

I would wonder how many women say that's their preference because they believe it's expected of them?

I'd also question how many of these women, are women.

I find that most people who talk about "their kink" are terribly boring. I always imagine they have dull and unfulfilling sex lives. They get scored down even lower in my estimations if they make any presumptions about other people's sex lives, even lower if they use the word "vanilla" when doing so.

I don't like how kink is seen to be so easily equated with lgb either. Just because a person is attracted to a particular sex, doesn't mean to say they have any other sexual preferences outside of the ordinary.

Perhaps the Guardian would like to have a column by P.I.E... they are almost there... so, so ashamed of ever having been a reader and just furious. It has nothing to do with LGB rights. No problem at all with men/women holding hands with men/women, kissing, hugging.

I do have a problem with a man in puppy outfit with an erection asking a child to 'pet' them.

@Franklyfrost

I think op has misrepresented the article which is mostly about kink in literature.

Children are mentioned once. Its worth remembering that children are exposed to a lot of sexual imagery which is there to appeal to straight, vanilla men. I’d rather there was less sexual imagery in the media in general but sex sells so it’s here to stay. I don’t see how a woman in a bikini with someone else’s hair attached to her head, painted orange, with fillers injected into her lips, extra breasts surgically added, wearing stilts, teeth bleached and eyelashes the size of brooms glued to her face could be any less perverse than a person representing a kink. I’m not even sure what a person representing a kink would look like, the article seems to be saying not someone in leather or wearing a leash because those are cliches that the article warns against. Any guesses?

I don’t see how a woman in a bikini with someone else’s hair attached to her head, painted orange, with fillers injected into her lips, extra breasts surgically added, wearing stilts, teeth bleached and eyelashes the size of brooms glued to her face could be any less perverse than a person representing a kink.

Do you realise how incredibly offensive this is? Does it occur to you that a woman in a bikini might just want to go for a swim? Do you think all women are dressing for men?

This is the number of times a non crime related article on kink should be talking about children: 0

Its worth remembering that children are exposed to a lot of sexual imagery which is there to appeal to straight, vanilla men.

A woman wearing a bikini is not 'sexual imagery'.

If you can't understand that you are demonstrating everything that is wrong this article.

The idea that we should be more open and interested in what people get up to in the bedroom and making out WE are the bad ones for not being interested is major gaslighting.

This is the number of times a non crime related article on kink should be talking about children: 0

well said merrymouse

Its worth remembering that children are exposed to a lot of sexual imagery which is there to appeal to straight, vanilla men.

I think children are exposed to too much sexual imagery on the whole. However, I don't think the solution to this is to expose to a wider range.

I am so relieved to see this thread. I read the article and the whole thing read like a justification to demand everyone indulges their fantasies whoever and wherever they may be. And to say "no" is to shame them. It reads like the death of consent.

Children are mentioned once. Its worth remembering that children are exposed to a lot of sexual imagery which is there to appeal to straight, vanilla men

I’m not sure exactly what you mean by this but surely it’s NEVER ok for children to be exposed to sexual imagery?

Private preferences are for behind closed doors. End of. Nothing to do with being gay, bi or straight, it's just somethings are for consenting adults and not for the street. I've seen some fetish outfits in town (remember when we could go out!) at night, the "puppy" kind and it's just not appropriate. Just like I don't think bikini tops are appropriate in a pub on a Saturday night. Not keen on pda particularly either, but that's nothing to do with sexuality either.

Op, I agree with you, a very disturbing attempt to blur the boundaries. There is no reason for ‘minors’ to be exposed to kink.

Sex is an adult occupation, or an exploratory one amongst post pubescent teens of a similar age. Children do not need be party to adults who can only get sexual pleasure from dressing up as animals and peeing on each other. Its only kink shaming if you bring it into the public domain, and rightfully so, it doesnt belong there. I would like to see some of these kink orientated people answer some difficult questions about where the line should be ? Paedoohilia on TV, copraphilia whislt on an LGB float at a pride parade. Who cares what someone does in the bedroom, there are plenty of opportunities for like minded adults to hook up these days. Queer doesnt seem to equate gay these days, and i would definately not leave my kids alone in the company of someone who identifies as such if they are happy to support children being exposed to adult sexual practices

It's one thing exploring kink and pornography as your sexuality develops, but being exposed to it before sexual awareness has even begun is surely abusive just as showing pornography to children is and should be considered abusive.

A kink according to the dictionary is 'a person's unusual sexual preference' why would that need to be around children. Chilling. It's clear from posters on here that it's certainly not the view of everyone who is part of the scene.

@CaraDuneRedux

I have met a few kink types and always found them to the most tedious bores about their hobby, so many believe it makes them me sort of brave sexual adventurer. I can out up with that if I have to but not this.

So much so that I often wonder if they are in fact over-compensating for something (inability to reach orgasm without leather, whips and chains? Ingrained repressed sexuality from a strict upbringing which they can only shake off by going to the other extreme?). I'm not sure that they're the sex positive people and we're the repressed prudes - the more I delve into people's accounts of the link scene, the more I think it might well be the other way round.

This is my experience of the backgrounds of kink enthusiasts too. Also those who get into yoga cult stuff. Not these people's faults for having repressed upbringings of course. But probably better to sort out your issues with a psychotherapist than using other people.

The people who are comfortable with their own bodies, comfortable with being straight or bi or gay, who love giving and receiving orgasms with a partner who is enthusiastically consenting, I think they are the "sex positive ones".

I find the general trend to blur not only boundaries, but distinct issues, and the meanings of words into undifferentiated mush both incredibly annoying and occasionally sinister. In this case, is is mistaking (possibly deliberately) the concept of shame, or shaming, with the practice of people being able to ensure reasonable separation between the private and the public, people asserting their boundaries, and people saying 'no, that is not acceptable in this context.' None of that is shaming.

I don't get the push for "normalisation" of it. Also I worry that the more "normal" the perception, the more extreme the need for weird will become. I also get really fed up of EVERYTHING being about sex. It seems to be the primary driver in our society now.

The trampling of consent and people's right not to be used in someone else's sexual e

sorry cat issues...

not to be used in someone else's sexual experiences is a large part of this whole general cultural movement.

This is the desired creation of a counter elite. There are those who wish the right to do as they want, without boundaries, using others as they choose, having first removed the right of others to say no to them. They want endless respect and kindness and indulgence and never being made to feel bad for behaving badly, but extend no respect or kindness or the slightest care for those they wish to make use of.

Society is being forced into a corner where it will have to relearn about boundaries, and the enforcement of them. And something that women learned decades ago as part of their liberation: there's a line between kindness and enabling doormat, and being codependent is not a healthy place to be.

It's appropriating the way women often speak about having been shamed and punished for their bodily appearance, functions and desires - and blamed for how men respond.

If only anyone cared about 'appropriation' when it involves those tiresome women.

I don't understand why it needs to "be in the public eye". This is not about someone's rights, is it? It's not like "kink" is illegal and we need to campaign for a law to change.