Do you talk about this at home?

[JoodyBlue]

Just wondering whether posters discuss the issues around gender id at home? The philosophy is making its way into many (even most) workplaces and educational establishments at present, so DCs and OHs are also dealing with it. The concerns can become consuming. I have to say I struggle with how much time and energy it takes to keep up with the arguments and with being a mum to other people dealing with it. Any advice? How do others find it? I noted a thread from a poster this morning having a disagreement with OH about right to request a female HCP.

came out of their diversity training feeling that they must all be terrible people on account of their white, male heterosexuality, even though they're all lovely and decent

This is actually the entry point for my DC into the incel/mra/tra.

I didn’t know how much sex mattered in raising him, I used my female childhood as a template (intense socialisation, care for others put above care for self, all the responsibility and none of the power)

As a male child he received all the male socialisation (powerful, to be listened to, world literally built around them, to be serviced by females etc) plus me overcompensating for my troubled childhood (you do have personal power etc)

And unwittingly I have given him a double dose of confidence - not an issue until pounced on by these disaffected men online (& influence of my abusive ex) and twisted into arrogance, self-entitlement, and anger at not having what as a man he ‘deserves’ and blaming women for that lack thereof.

The reason I quoted PP is because that phrasing is the same as his usage. At any point he is centring himself.

Diversity training is, I thought, about getting to know the difficulties facing other people and how to help mitigate, alleviate or stop those barriers so we can all move on together.

My DC would see it and respond with something similar to rhe quote. No thought about the people he is meant to be learning about just ‘poor me, why I am I having to do this, everyone thinks I’m the bogeyman’ and thats where incel/mra/tra have their hook.

They perpetuate the man = special and if you are not getting special treatment, or worse having to endure being lumped in with non-special people (like women, or depending on flavour of ‘special men’ gays, poc, the differently abled - basically anyone not ‘them’) then you are being hard done by.

Learning about ‘others’ is seen as a punishment, not an opportunity, never mind doing any work at all to help or assist ‘others’ and if the ‘others’ get centred, even for a brief moment, they are raging at the unjustness of it all.

Sorry Owl I’m not singling out you/your DH its the phrasing being similar to what my DC has used in conversation about women’s fears over self-id that sparked of the above thoughts.

I am grateful you posted and it did strike a chord because it just gave me the opportunity to think all of that through and realise my mistakes as a mother raising a boy.

Hopefully it will also help me navigate our relationship with more insight than I had before and I appreciate all the help I can get!

@Sacreblue re your post above. Thank you for sharing it. I think it is so important.

I think also this is to come extent the case with many people. The mandatory nature of the Inclusion and Diversity training is causing resentment in lots of quarters.

It is because it is by design divisive, seeking to categorise. I honestly think the way forward towards a more diverse society is to focus and hone in on people's similarities as human beings, rather than bang on about differences.

Comes right back to the gender argument being based on sand. We are all human beings. We divide into 2 camps for reproductive purposes and should respect that. In everything else let's look for the commonality and not the difference.

JoodyBlue

I am with you 100% on this. So much about the current approach to diversity and inclusion seems to achieve the opposite of what it intends to. I am all for celebrating difference but we should also be highlighting what we have in common, what we all share and how we can move forward to an improved future for everyone.

Instead of celebrating difference current approaches appear more about establishing a hierarchy of oppression and apportioning blame.

As a woman and a mother I feel aware of things which I would find in common especially with mothers the world over but with women more generally too. The differences between the two sexes is the only genuine deeply rooted difference being based in biology, the rest is culture.

I think my DW can see through it, but doesn,t like me speaking about it. If anyone on here has a person in their life who is borderline GC, then they may wish to show them this article from 2012. If it doesn't open their eyes for good then nothing will.

www.lifesitenews.com/news/50-year-old-transsexual-8216woman8217-makes-college-basketball-debut-video

[quote andyoldlabour]I think my DW can see through it, but doesn,t like me speaking about it. If anyone on here has a person in their life who is borderline GC, then they may wish to show them this article from 2012. If it doesn't open their eyes for good then nothing will.

www.lifesitenews.com/news/50-year-old-transsexual-8216woman8217-makes-college-basketball-debut-video[/quote]
*Central Valley Conference, Commissioner Logan McKechnie said, while Luwdig is tall, his state certification as a female is all that matters. “I don’t think, frankly, fairness enters into it,” he said.

Another commissioner, Dale Murray of the Coast Conference, believes Ludwig is evenly matched with his competitors and “just happens to be a bit taller than everyone else.”*

I despair.🙄

It really is the emperor's new clothes.

Indulging a fantasy is something I associate with children, not fully grown adults.

"It really is the emperor's new clothes."

100% this and anyone who thinks the above is fair, is totally deluded or being deliberately misogynistic.

Lots of eye rolling if I try to discuss it at home.
Son getting better at understanding and sent me a short South Park snippet about TW athletes
DD had a TG friend but not in contact now. DD struggled to call friend by new pronouns - having known this friend as opposite gender.
Another friend's child is TG- DD asked 'why???' I've no answer for her
DH will not discuss; its a case of not that again.......

DH completely agrees with me on all of it, but since it doesn't impinge on his reality that much he's not as concerned as I am. I know he has had chats with his family though, who all agree with him, thank god.

DD, 20s, totally gets it and is quietly GC. I think she's had a few conversations with friends, and tackled her father, who's very much 'be kind' and 'I can't see a problem'. DS1 is totally woke and very touchy, and I don't go anywhere near it. DS2 is now fully GC after a dating incident. DS3 is still pretty woke on this issue, and doesn't like me talking about it. Mainly, I suspect, because he can't back up his position and doesn't want to have to deal with the psychological/social fallout if he admits to himself that the TRA position is fundamentally misogynistic.

DS2 is now fully GC after a dating incident.

Please don't leave us hanging on!

Just a few details? Please?

prisencolinensinainciusol2

Exactly what I was thinking

Most of you are so lucky to have done GC teens. DH gets it but like lots of men, thinks I’m blowing it out of proportion. DD’s (18 and 20) suddenly thought I’d turned into Donald Trump and were furious with me - obviously my lefty ways throughout their entire lives was just a cunning plan. Now we cannot discuss it at all and I’m just playing a long game as I didn’t see it at first either.
Funnily enough, youngest laughed nervously when a friend of hers (boy) was being what I consider, quite transphobic. Wish I’d caught them with this as pre-teens.

I think forewarned is now forearmed. We've always been a fairly gender non conforming family in terms of roles and DD has grown up knowing that stereotypes can be harmful etc, even this is not necessarily insulation enough against genderism.
But she and I trod carefully on this issue and we've been gently discussing it for a couple of years. She has been quite cross with me at times.
I wasn't dismissive, but put forward some of the arguments she probably wasn't hearing and asked her some questions that made her think a bit more.
She's recently hit peak rant mostly I think because she's now more active on social media and it's everywhere. She's very arty but has started unfollowing some artists once she clocks nonsense in their bio's. Xenogenders are the final straw it seems...
Interestingly it seems that a lot of trans people are equally unimpressed with identities around wolves for example. Not furries, actual wolves. So she tells me. Unsurprisingly the only limits to gender identity are human imagination.

Even though Mr C agrees with the batshittery of much of the ideology and wokeness, I find more of and more his reaction to anything I bring up about it is slightly patronising. Like 'yes dear, that's nice.'

So much of what's discussed here isn't in the public eye mainstream media, especially if you're not on twitter etc. I think he's still under the impression that there aren't any RL consequences of it. He's not really a 'just be kind' pushover, more of a 'whatever, doesn't affect me' type. It's still mostly hypothetical and nimby.

@Beamur

I don't see how wanting to be seen as a wolf is any more silly than expecting others to address you as xe or xer. My autocorrect is apparently transphobic, it tried to type 'we' and 'see' for xe and xer. 😁

I can discuss it at home with husband but not teenager.

Husband feels I talk about it too much but understands that I find the dissonance too hard to deal with. He teases me by reminding me I am a ‘just a vulva person’ or whatever, so he gets it.

He tells me though that he thinks women just need to ‘get it together’ to push back. . So, lately I just point out how women are ‘getting it together’ and how women are being treated and how so many people are still on the ‘be kind’ page. He is beginning to understand the depth of the capture. He hadn’t noticed before.

He is about to change jobs and I think he might realize he was in a bit of a bubble. I suspect this new workplace will be very different to his last.

@prisencolinensinainciusol2 Sorry, just seen your comment. I would love to tell you, but unfortunately said son has admitted to lurking on MN now and then, and I'd be outing myself!

I'm so glad I found this thread today.

I am a feminist. I also thought I was tolerant of trans people, but apparently, by thinking of trans people as trans, that makes me transphobic. And then I think, am I? Am I just a version of a gammon? Am I like all those people who think they're nice people, it's just it's not right those.....are coming over here....? How can I have more in common with daily mail writers or Tories? How have I got this so wrong? I've had to nc here cos I'm paranoid about anyone from work finding out my dark secret.

I've also followed a thread on a running group today, which was pretty jaw dropping (and has every cliche I see when tw come on mn threads), with transphobic being levelled at anyone who even dared suggest than tw have an advantage in sports. I'm just so tired of it. I wanted to go on a challenge the use of the word 'hysteria ' too, but didn't have the guts.

@Sittingathome
You're not alone. It's a bit of an eye opener isn't it?