Yes, Trans People Belong in Sports (Article)

[Zinco]

I found this to be impressively slimy rhetoric. Like it's simulating giving an argument without really having one; all the time taking the moral high ground including of course to impugn the motives of those that take the other side.

In one way it's garbage writing; in another way it's actually quite clever rhetoric imo.

www.marieclaire.com/politics/a35400029/why-transgender-people-belong-in-sports/

"The use of “protecting women in sports” as a cloak for excluding trans women would be comical if it wasn’t so painful. There are renewed calls to police the bodies of women and girl athletes by excluding girls who are trans from participating on school athletic teams. As if, somehow, we can protect women and girls if we just exclude the ones who some believe are “too much like boys” and are “given an unfair competitive advantage” (for the record, this has not been proven). But this is the very thing that has harmed so many athletes—both cisgender and transgender—in women’s sports: the idea that our bodies are somehow fair game for scrutiny, debate, and intrusion. It is this scrutiny that is a threat to women’s sports—not the presence of trans women and girls. We must ask ourselves the critical question: Why are trans girls and women being targeted the most?

Many of those most vocally opposed to trans women have not advocated for an expansion of media coverage for women’s sports, increased resources and marketing for women’s sports, and investment in sports programs for women and girls around the country. They are not wearing our jerseys or attending our games. Instead, they are weaponizing our existence to hurt others. These people want to keep women in their place and then use us as swords to cut people who pose no threat to the advancement of our sport."

'too much like boys'

How much proof that mixed sex sports can be dangerous and/or unfair.

Also no one wants to stop anyone from participating. Just wanting to make the deciding factor sex rather than gender.

The lengths people will go to to excuse themselves in smashing through female resources to grab them for male people. It's all cognitive hoop jumping trying to convince themselves when the sheer effort of it all demonstrates they know it's wrong.

From what i can make out, Layshia Clarendon the author of that piece 'openly identifies as transgender and non-binary' and has 'recently undergone an operation to remove breast tissue', but plays basketball for the Women's National Basketball Association.

Go figure.

Of course transpeople belong in sports. Nobody is excluding them. But sport is sexed, not gendered, as the advantages of male bodies don’t disappear after testosterone reduction.
Male bodies will always keep their larger cardiac output, lung capacity, fast twitch muscle fibre ratios, oxygen carrying capacity, broader shoulder girdle, narrower pelvis, higher centre of gravity, longer femurs, etc etc. So transwomen either need a separate category of competition for themselves, or should compete against males.

Nope! Not arguing about it any more.

Males do not get to compete in female sport. Ever!

The argument is NOT why are transwomen and girls being discriminated against.

The question IS why are some men trying to remove any and all legal sex based protections but only as applied to women?

We need to stop defending ourselves when we say no!

We need to consistently reframe the question and say fuck off!

Yes, @Babdoc - seems we need to repeat this again, and again, and again.

I'm 100% in favour of trans people taking part in sport.
I don't know anyone who isn't in favour of this.
As with every person in the world, all should be able to take part in appropriate sex-specific sports, and in open categories. I hope all people, OF COURSE including trans people, are able to do this if they want to.

I am not in favour of biological males encroaching on sport for biological females. It's dangerous, it's unfair, and it's discriminatory in a genuine sense of the word.

Guess we need to keep repeating this.

I do know (not personally have read their internet spewings) conservative bigoted men who do not believe that trans people should be allowed anywhere in public life because basically they think they are gross or deviant.

I agree that the majority of people would be perfectly happy for trans folks to be accommodated in their own sporting leagues, mixed sex sports, and/or their own sex categories (assuming no doping with PED like testosterone).

once you change dictionary definitions of words, you can argue anything, it does not have to make sense any more.

@fakenina

'too much like boys'

Laughed out loud at that, but maybe I should be crying. How have we come to this, the total erosion of the reality of life as a girl or woman ?

The author is deluded. There really is nothing else to say.

Marie Claire is just one of many publications owned by Hearst, fully woowoo.

The writer talks about basketball. A sport where height is a big advantage.

They honestly think males competing against females is AOK?

Anyway the thing about being denied access to sport is rubbish. Play all you want, with your own sex.

If any sport needs opening up it's men's into a general category. That accepts GNC men. And women on testosterone.

We watched the rugby earlier. The idea of men and women competing against each other? Is nuts.

Ditto basketball and. Lots of other sports.

Just why?

The writer talks about basketball. A sport where height is a big advantage.

Yes - and hand size - highly important in basketball to grip and manipulate the ball - do women have the same hand size and advantage? Nope.

Narcissistic claptrap. Everyone belongs in sport. Brown haired people, black haired people, ginger haired people, blonde haired people, bald people etc and just like everyone else, those who identify as the opposite sex have to play sport in the sex that they are.

Why so special? The only way I would be able to play basketball is if I identified as a 12 year old and got into their team. What about my feelings?

I had never heard of Layshia Clarendon, but apparently they play World Class basketball, been a Gold medal winner for the US at the 2018 World Cup and the 2009 U19 World Championship. Clarendon is non-binary and uses the pronouns - she/her, they/them and he/him. I think Clarendon was born female.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layshia_Clarendon

From what i can make out, Layshia Clarendon the author of that piece 'openly identifies as transgender and non-binary' and has 'recently undergone an operation to remove breast tissue', but plays basketball for the Women's National Basketball Association.

Go figure.

But that's fine isn't it? They are biologically female, or have I misunderstood? I have no issues sharing space or sports with transmen.

The article however, that's not so fine.

My point was that she doesn't identify as female, but still chooses to play basketball in the female league. Almost as if she recognises that she would be disadvantaged in the male game... while denying that any such disadvantage exists.

Sorry - just realised I used female pronouns. Genuine mistake (though from what I can make out Layshia is OK with she/her in addition to they/them he/him??)

[quote andyoldlabour]I had never heard of Layshia Clarendon, but apparently they play World Class basketball, been a Gold medal winner for the US at the 2018 World Cup and the 2009 U19 World Championship. Clarendon is non-binary and uses the pronouns - she/her, they/them and he/him. I think Clarendon was born female.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layshia_Clarendon[/quote]
Yes, Clarendon appears to be female. Here's an article from 2017:

www.outsports.com/2017/11/15/16654312/layshia-clarendon-marriage-wedding-jessica-dolan

According to wikipedia Clarendon is 5'9". I can't see Clarendon still playing basketball in a 'women's' team filled with transwomen, which is what Clarendon seems to be arguing for.

This nonsense reads much clearer as a men's rights article if you alter the pronouns to reflect reality.

I think the only hope at this point is to agree with them. Sex segregation is no longer relevant. We can merge the WNBA and the NBA.

I do know (not personally have read their internet spewings) conservative bigoted men who do not believe that trans people should be allowed anywhere in public life because basically they think they are gross or deviant.

Yeah, and there are others who are more subtle and identify as progressives.
People who perpetuate the myth that the only way to 'include' TWs in sports is to put them in non-men categories don't necessarily have the purest of motives.

Yet again, the argument centres solely on trans women and trans girls with absolutely no regard for trans boys/men, of which there now seem to be disproportionately more of.

Why is no one interested in their access to sport? Their representation? Is it because to argue that biological women competing in men's sport exposes the absolute absurdity??

The word "woman" belongs nowhere n any definition of a male person. It's infuriating to witness the dishonesty in claiming that men are any kind of women. Men do not have any place in women's sports.

The irony here is that the person who wrote the article IS a transman, Inside. Or at least, has female biology but identifies as 'trans and non-binary', and is a sports professional advocating for trans women and girls to be included in women's teams. But, as a female-born 'trans and non-binary' person, plays in a female team themself.

I've been reading around gender identity issues for about 4 years now and there is still SO MUCH that I find utterly baffling and logic-defying.