Yes, Trans People Belong in Sports (Article)

[Zinco]

I found this to be impressively slimy rhetoric. Like it's simulating giving an argument without really having one; all the time taking the moral high ground including of course to impugn the motives of those that take the other side.

In one way it's garbage writing; in another way it's actually quite clever rhetoric imo.

www.marieclaire.com/politics/a35400029/why-transgender-people-belong-in-sports/

"The use of “protecting women in sports” as a cloak for excluding trans women would be comical if it wasn’t so painful. There are renewed calls to police the bodies of women and girl athletes by excluding girls who are trans from participating on school athletic teams. As if, somehow, we can protect women and girls if we just exclude the ones who some believe are “too much like boys” and are “given an unfair competitive advantage” (for the record, this has not been proven). But this is the very thing that has harmed so many athletes—both cisgender and transgender—in women’s sports: the idea that our bodies are somehow fair game for scrutiny, debate, and intrusion. It is this scrutiny that is a threat to women’s sports—not the presence of trans women and girls. We must ask ourselves the critical question: Why are trans girls and women being targeted the most?

Many of those most vocally opposed to trans women have not advocated for an expansion of media coverage for women’s sports, increased resources and marketing for women’s sports, and investment in sports programs for women and girls around the country. They are not wearing our jerseys or attending our games. Instead, they are weaponizing our existence to hurt others. These people want to keep women in their place and then use us as swords to cut people who pose no threat to the advancement of our sport."

I've been reading around gender identity issues for about 4 years now and there is still SO MUCH that I find utterly baffling and logic-defying.

That is never going to change. It's a belief system that simultaneously relies on and denies the sex binary.

AbsintheFriends

My point was that she doesn't identify as female, but still chooses to play basketball in the female league. Almost as if she recognises that she would be disadvantaged in the male game...

Of course, sorry I had separated the fact that she is a transman from the words she had written. It does obviously make her a hypocrite.

If a transman is welcome on a woman's sports team, then surely a TW can compete with/against men's teams. If the author is really arguing for inclusion for TW to be included with women, why aren't they on a men's team?

"I've been reading around gender identity issues for about 4 years now and there is still SO MUCH that I find utterly baffling and logic-defying."

After reading the article, then the Wiki page, I feel my head is going to explode

CranberriesChoccyAgain, the phrase “Having one’s cake and eating it” comes to mind...

Meanwhile trans people get to police women. Sinister

Currently, the shortest male player in the NBA is Chris Clemens, who is 5' 9" and 82Kg, the same height as Layshia Clarendon, but 10Kg heavier. A clear example of why so few transmen play in male sports.

Who says women have not been promoting women's sport, buying kit and advocating more media coverage?

I write this as DH and DD are watching Reading vs Man Utd, and discussing the latest England team selection. My best guess is that women's sport was not well covered because most people influential within sport media were men, and only the huge crowds at the Women's Football World Cup (we were there) woke them up to the fact that there was an audience.

Speaking of basketball, I don't know if anyone is watching the new Sabrina series on Netflix but there is a character who is a trans boy (who in the first season was a girl who was beaten and abused by her father for being female and then transitions). The trans boy character decides they want to play basketball, "obviously" cannot play on the girls team as they are a boy, tries out for the boys team and fails, as they are too small. Sabrina then has to cast a spell to magically assist the trans boy to get chosen for the team. I would be absolutely agog to see how the cast and writers of the show rationalise this - literally a magic spell must be cast to create the circumstances where this trans boy can play sport, otherwise they are excluded!? The cognitive dissonance must be colossal.

If it wasn't for the press coverage around the trans actor playing this character, I would have thought it was a storyline cooked up by a bunch of GC writers trying to peak-trans the viewers.

It makes it sound as though there are people trying to exclude females who are trans - as in actual female people who want to present more masculine - from women's sport, when NO ONE IS DOING THAT.

I would have thought it was a storyline cooked up by a bunch of GC writers trying to peak-trans the viewers

Haha it does actually sound like that's what's going on there

@Babdoc

CranberriesChoccyAgain, the phrase “Having one’s cake and eating it” comes to mind...

Whatever gives the transperson the advantage is how it's seemingly determined.

I don't disagree with a TM on a woman's team (as long as they're not on testosterone and thereby at a huge advantage). Fairness for all competitors should be the main objective.

Sadly I think women will lose out a lot more before anything changes.

':49Needmoresleep

Who says women have not been promoting women's sport, buying kit and advocating more media coverage?'

That writer says that because it suits them to say it even though it's bollocks.

The gradual increase in profile of women's sport, getting coverage on TV, sponsorship etc has been a long long slog.

Interesting that as soon as female sport stars to gain profile visibility money. Coincides with the desire of males to join in.

“given an unfair competitive advantage” (for the record, this has not been proven)

I really cannot understand why this kind of thing is repeated everywhere when its bloody proven nonsense. This..transgirls are not like other male people, honest, the advantages males have do not exist in transgirls because pink sparkles

TRAs seem to be trying to makeout that all we know about biology is infact wrong, and that men do not have an advantage over women at all, in which case, why segregate o start with?!

As if, somehow, we can protect women and girls if we just exclude the ones who some believe are “too much like boys” and are “given an unfair competitive advantage” (for the record, this has not been proven)

Wow, how many lies can they cram into one sentence?

@fakenina

'too much like boys'

It's a funny way of phrasing "who are actually boys", isn't it?

Some things I can understand their POV but when it comes to this
that simultaneously relies on and denies the sex binary.
and sex is a spectrum, or worse, a social construct, I just don’t understand how they believe it.

"As if, somehow, we can protect women and girls if we just exclude the ones who some believe are “too much like boys” and are “given an unfair competitive advantage” (for the record, this has not been proven)"

Perhaps we need to ask MC for a explanation or retraction

I watched the rugby earlier with DH.

Anyone who thinks that women can fairly and safely compete against males, whether self ID or with artificially lowered testosterone. Is lying. They don't think that. There are various motivations for this lie but that's the bottom line.

'Gender' is the social construct associated with each biological sex. Ultimately biological sex is at the core of it and gender is the wrapping. Feminists believe gender is harmful and should be challenged - but not by simply transferring the wrapping to the opposite sex. You don't change the nature of what it's wrapped around. All you do is create false advertising.

Biological sex is more meaningful than gender, and sometimes it's very important to recognise someone's biological sex. Sport is one of those times.