Radio 4 - not 5

[Awning10]

They are discussing sport. I think Martina will be on later.

Sharon MacGowan (sp?) was talking nonsense. It's so strange to hear people argue that trans girls otherwise known as boys can fairly compete in girls sports.

Apparently fairness isn't important in non-elite sports. And there are only a few.

Great interview. He asked the right questions and wouldn't be fobbed off.

The American woman (Sharon McGowan) being interviewed is not used to being challenged. At all. Well done Nick for rolling over when she trotted out the “be nice” lines.

Nick Robinson asks the right questions!

Total failure on her part to recognise that if a sport has 100 women ranked and just one a male joins the competition then 100 women get their rank downgraded as he takes the top spot. 100 women affected to support the feelings of one male.

Absolutely incredible to try and argue that trans athletes participating in women's sports won't have any impact whatsoever on the female athletes.

I think Martina will be on later.

I hate the talk of "extreme positions on both sides" thinking a post-puberty boy is stronger and faster than a girl is not extreme, it's simply factual.

It really is allowing motorbikes to take part in bicycle races as long as they identify as bicycles. The categories are not intended to reflect gender identity but of the two basic body types.

I despair.

I've been told a couple of times by young, intelligent women that it's sexist and defeatist to say we're not as strong or as fast as men.

Admittedly I used to believe that too - before I turned 12.

It's totally bizarre. All I can think is that some young people have been watching too many super hero films, and haven't yet learned the hard way that they're a fantasy.

She couldn’t give a straight answer could she?! Just a load of nonsense about money going into girls sports. Well if that includes transgirls, it’s not girls sport is it.

It's totally bizarre. All I can think is that some young people have been watching too many super hero films

At the risk of a derail; I was thinking about this the other day when I was unlucky enough to catch a bit of the awful new Batwoman series.

It's had two different protagonists, both very slight women, who routinely beat up huge men because they know a bit of judo. DW used to be very good at karate but would have stood no chance in a fight against her short, unfit husband simply because of the difference in weight and muscle mass.

I think TV's lip service to equality by just ignoring reality is unhelpful.

@Floisme

I've been told a couple of times by young, intelligent women that it's sexist and defeatist to say we're not as strong or as fast as men.

Admittedly I used to believe that too - before I turned 12.

It's totally bizarre. All I can think is that some young people have been watching too many super hero films, and haven't yet learned the hard way that they're a fantasy.

Reading actual sports statistics on world records etc should correct such bizarre beliefs pretty fast. The final differences between men and women are probably going to shrink some (even if we ignore trans women entering elite sports for women) because the number of women who are seriously training is still much smaller than the number of men. But the differences will not go away.

I watched the videos of the Connecticut trans girls winning races. Connecticut allowed students up to a certain age to compete as the gender they identify as without any medical intervention, and one of the trans girls who won her race had no technique, windmill arms and so on, but easily beat the best natal girl who showed excellent running technique.

But of course it's also the case that if women, indeed, were as strong and fast as men, then there shouldn't be any separate categories by sex at all. So the question, then, would be why they exist at all.

@donquixotedelamancha

It's totally bizarre. All I can think is that some young people have been watching too many super hero films

At the risk of a derail; I was thinking about this the other day when I was unlucky enough to catch a bit of the awful new Batwoman series.

It's had two different protagonists, both very slight women, who routinely beat up huge men because they know a bit of judo. DW used to be very good at karate but would have stood no chance in a fight against her short, unfit husband simply because of the difference in weight and muscle mass.

I think TV's lip service to equality by just ignoring reality is unhelpful.

In the real world, women win by using their wits and the law. Ruth Bader Ginsberg was a real world superhero.

Martina will be on soon

Would one of you post the time Martina’s “trenchant views” get an airing? I’ve got to make a call.

Yeah the women concerned probably weren't into sport. But I've a feeling that, even if presented with the stats they'd have come out with some guff about women needing more self belief.

I agree about tv ignoring reality donquixote and yet I grew up on The Avengers and was convinced I was going to be like Emma Peel. And for a while, I was about as strong as any boy I knew - what brought me up short was puberty.
I can't work out how any young woman can make it to adulthood without realising.

I had to google the meaning of "trenchant"!

I agree about tv ignoring reality donquixote and yet I grew up on The Avengers and was convinced I was going to be like Emma Peel.

Oh sure, TV is often unrealistic, yet Emma Peel won with wits as often as physicality.
While often silly, the avengers never felt to me like it was fibbing in the same way as a number of recent ones.

In fairness I am picking an especially crap show; still I think some of it is part of the same faux wokeness.

This feels like a new talking point. I was speaking with a TWAW acquaintance about the Hate Crime Bill amendments, he wanted to see examples of women being criminalised for discussing trans issues - then dismissed each one with “extreme examples aren’t helpful.”

Martina is on now

Martina is on now.

Oh sure, TV is often unrealistic, yet Emma Peel won with wits as often as physicality.
I'm afraid it was all about physicality for me. I wanted to throw men over my shoulder and have a gun and flicked up hair.
But I digress. What I really don't understand is how these young women can have gone through puberty without noticing physical reality. Sorry if I'm repeating myself but I'm baffled.

So depressing and crazy that she’s been asked to defend “that there is such a thing as biological sex”.
But she’s doing a great job. Advocating science and fact rather than feeling and emotion

She was great. "Follow the science".

whizzed through the thread and wondered why Shane McGowan was speaking on womens sports