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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Evan Rachel Wood - and companies rushing to drop Manson

69 replies

MedusasBadHairDay · 02/02/2021 13:51

Anyone else finding it interesting how Manson's record label, and 2 TV shows have dropped him so fast after Evan Rachel Wood and others named him as an abuser?

Usually companies wait a while to see if it all blows over, but they've barely hesitated. On the one hand, that's great they are taking the women seriously and believing them. But to me it also suggests that they know enough about him to have absolutely no doubts - which begs the question of why were they working with him in the first place? Given a lot of his awful behaviour was well known, why did it take them this long?

OP posts:
DragonBlu · 03/02/2021 20:09

I saw some of this stuff a couple of years ago and also that Manson boasted in interviews on video that he knew people who would kill people that he wanted dead. I think he mentioned MS-13 gang. I can't find the clip. He has said elsewhere he is friends with people in MS-13. Don't know if he was being serious but women did seem truly scared to come out about this stuff. There is power in numbers though. There's like 8 ex girlfriends and others that have come out with allegations so far.

DragonBlu · 03/02/2021 20:10

My post above wasn't a response to SetYourselfOnFire by the way.

DragonBlu · 03/02/2021 20:15

There's a fashion stylist claiming he pulled a gun to her head, and other stuff. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9216853/Fashion-stylist-claims-Marilyn-Manson-held-gun-head-photoshoot-home-2011.html

Also says in this article that one of the women he dated, Gabriella, has said "'He would threaten me by saying that I should be scared of him. He would often brag about being affiliated with the MS13 gang,' she said."

MedusasBadHairDay · 03/02/2021 20:37

@DragonBlu

I saw some of this stuff a couple of years ago and also that Manson boasted in interviews on video that he knew people who would kill people that he wanted dead. I think he mentioned MS-13 gang. I can't find the clip. He has said elsewhere he is friends with people in MS-13. Don't know if he was being serious but women did seem truly scared to come out about this stuff. There is power in numbers though. There's like 8 ex girlfriends and others that have come out with allegations so far.
I'm sure I read that someone asked ERW on twitter why she wouldn't name her abuser and she told them she was worried he'd kill her. I think she genuinely believed she was at risk, which makes her naming him even more impressive. She must have been terrified.
OP posts:
thirdfiddle · 03/02/2021 20:52

Thanks for the info all. I was feeling a bad bad for him being named all over the press on the basis of just allegation, now I see so much evidence I won't bother.

Tempnamechange11 · 04/02/2021 00:21

"
m.youtube.com/watch?v=cobhBZmiihU

m.youtube.com/watch?v=WUtPTTHpOec

mansonisabusive Instagram

MMansonAbuse Twitter"

"
esmebiancoofficial.medium.com/read-esme-biancos-grueling-unedited-testimony-as-a-domestic-violence-survivor-in-support-of-the-427e45081fe9

mobile.twitter.com/esmebianco/status/1356382013767344133

celebrityinsider.org/amp/ashley-walters-accuses-marilyn-manson-of-using-mind-control-and-torture-tactics-to-control-her-473565/ "

thanx DragonBlu. Some extreme stuff there. Wish all the best to these women and all others including those that haven't made it public yet I'm sure.

I was a fan, as a teen I went to a concert on my own in 2012. My mental health wasn't good. Got infatuated with him, won't tell you what I fantasized about, dark stuff. "some of them want to be abused" indeed. All that heart-shaped glasses, Lolita stuff. I was self harming and suicidal but actually wanted him to kill me! I wanted to be killed by Marilyn Manson. That's how f*cked up I was. My mind was not healthy then. Good job I never met him. I've read about bad and disgusting stuff he and the band have done to fans/groupies too, direct from himself, and others. He could have had a cult like his namesake if he wanted. I appreciate the music, videos, and early style, have to say. Even though I don't listen or watch it anymore, haven't in years, i'm not in that mindset anymore and don't want to be, and never will listen or watch again. Disturbing what he's done to these women, not surprised he did this stuff, but thought it would be somewhat consensual, but not according to them obviously, clearly wasn't. Some of it could definitely never be.

This is another tape of testimony from Evan Rachel Wood about the abuse she suffered, for the Pheonix Act, which we now definitely know was about Manson, which was much speculated. Completely horrific. He is clearly a very dangerous abusive man.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm2_JCNWTus

And here Evan also talks about him threatening that he can kill her and members of her family as he is connected to gang members. He also threatened her with other things

Glittertwins · 04/02/2021 06:02

@MedusasBadHairDay After reading it, I was quite happy to have not gone to the after show party that he stropped off from.

MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 04/02/2021 10:40

@DragonBlu

There's a fashion stylist claiming he pulled a gun to her head, and other stuff. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9216853/Fashion-stylist-claims-Marilyn-Manson-held-gun-head-photoshoot-home-2011.html

Also says in this article that one of the women he dated, Gabriella, has said "'He would threaten me by saying that I should be scared of him. He would often brag about being affiliated with the MS13 gang,' she said."

Women get accused of transphobia for saying we don't want mixed sex facilities.

MM holds a gun to a TW's head and calls her a f, and nothing happens to him. Where is the TRA Twitter mob calling for his downfall?

SinkGirl · 04/02/2021 10:53

@Wotapolava

I have not paid any real attention to this case. I do find it quite telling how Prince Andrew was the only name revealed in the Epstein scandal. It is the US so these things are allowed to be put in public before legal course. Not in the UK - although the British press do run the stories.

One question people should ask - what would you do if it was you In MM position?

As for the BBC scandal that was or wasn't, it should make people think.

Just looking at the threads on here about affairs/adultery for instance allow for a comparison to be made - because it all centres around the same subject.

Perspective (not blame) is sometimes everything:

If a 13 year-old goes with a 17/18 year-old (not yet an adult in terms of the law) they risk going on a sex offender register. Even with consent and no harm

A marriage and family can be torn apart by affairs, yet such conduct is normalised as acceptable in law and the divorce then becomes about finances and possessions - not children.

Another perspective ( perspective, not blame) is to consider the damage done by officials in regards to misconduct in public office which carries a maximum life imprisonment tariff.
How many people have been given that sentence?

Zero.

Protected to the hilt while the standards are set which don't apply to them. How can anything improve?

I suppose a dead nurse at the hands of a police officer through a force who have been a cause for concern for years is not taken seriously. Officers slipping in and out of forces no questions asked.

I could go on and on about other issues there but that is in my blog where I have more to write.

Has anyone here claimed benefits?
You will know the levels of privacy information they ask.
We are legally required to give it. Officials, don't have to answer serious concerns?
Unfortunately there are some very sick people who would rather you suffer than them.

Such misconduct gets excused as personal and no-ones business. Or a counter claim as possibly vexatious. Sure we all make mistakes but we aren't sat where you are. A fundamental difference.

As I said to somebody recently, you can't look outwards until you look inwards.
As for anyone wanting to be taken seriously and be seen as sincere in any trusted position - it starts with your personal behaviour and attitude to it.
It is one thing to make a mistake but to then abuse power in cover up and use bullying, intimidation to silence complainers - is evil and does great harm to trust and peoples MH. You can't behave like that and expect others to trust you.
Look at the caliber of current PM - moreover, look to those who support him but wouldn't approve of his behaviours in others.

It isn't the people going to jail that are the real cause for concern but those who AREN'T!

There are people who are probably scared right now, don't be. Unless you are a mass murderer or total lost cause for help, there is always a bigger deck out there than you. You just need to find the argument for it.

I don't need approval or verification on my views because my own experiences entitle me to hold them.

I have no time for people who stand in my way. You have nothing of decency to gain.

What on Earth are you talking about? By your own admission you know nothing about the case, so probably wise not to make ridiculous rambling statements of no relevance?

What is your motive for whatabouting and trivialising the abuse of women?

I can’t tell you what I would do in his position because I would never treat another human being that way, nor would I openly discuss treating women that way and know that people would just assume it was part of my edgy persona.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 04/02/2021 11:09

I remember people treating the book as a work of fiction,

I was a goth in the late 90s. (Most goths didn't consider MM goth, and sneered at him a bit).
Anyway, I was a fan at that time, and read his book.
I didn't believe most of it, it seemed like he was trying too hard, a bit pathetic.
I remember a weak claim that he may (or may not) have had sex with a famous porn actress, but he was too drugged up to remember.
Just seemed like weak bragging and I dismissed it.
I don't remember anything which may be admissions of abuse, but I read it a long time ago.

Jsnn · 04/02/2021 11:09

@DragonBlu

The fact that as shown in that second video I posted, he talked in several interviews about locking his girlfriends up in rooms, including in soundproof rooms, when they were "bad" and having to remember to let them out the next day... And people just... I don't know... thought he was joking or it was false and just part of his "persona"?... Or assumed the women didn't mind?... But it turns out that it's true... And worse... And they did mind. Chilling.
Yeah it is very challenging because he is an entertainer and you don't know what's said for shock factor and what is true. Entertainers need to be able to lie and tell stories even if they are inappropriate/graphic or whatever. You may not agree, that's fine.

I wonder a bit how this will play out for him. People have been trying to cancel marilyn manson before metoo and cancel culture was a thing and he's always been able to fight it off. He's been banned from countries, venues, named in government enquires, sued, dropped from deals/contracts but all that happened when he was much more popular than now.

I don't know if he is big enough now to be able to weather this storm. Probably the end for him.

I don't think there is even a question about whether this happened or not. Even without additional accusers ERW is much more credible than him.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 04/02/2021 11:14

To echo what others have said - his sort of "act" (sounds like not in his case) is very common in the alt/metal scene.
Diamond Head told us they were evil (Am I Evil? Yes I am), and flirting with satanic imagery is extremely common.
99% of the times it's harmless, so it's not a case of "he told us, we should have known".

LetsSplashMummy · 04/02/2021 11:25

Going back to the OP, I think it's easier to drop someone whose USP is that they are a bit alternative and weird. It is easy to move from "good weird," to "bad weird," and not come back from it. So I understand why he was dropped quickly.

They might have known, they might have found it hard to detangle the stage persona from the real person. When someone is deliberately provocative, you do question your instincts around them, so I'd not rush to judge people working with him but instead try to look at how we manage boundaries around art forms that are boundary pushing in nature. They do seem to offer a degree of protection.

MedusasBadHairDay · 04/02/2021 12:22

I was a goth in the late 90s. (Most goths didn't consider MM goth, and sneered at him a bit)

Haha yep. I was one of those goths, though I did initially like his music before I discovered the goth scene.

OP posts:
SinkGirl · 04/02/2021 12:50

Saville. Michael Jackson. Terry Richardson. Marilyn Manson. All absolute pros in cultivating a persona that shields them from scrutiny.

prisencolinensinainciusol2 · 04/02/2021 12:59

I could talk for hours on this but I won't.

Cheers.

Wotapolava · 04/02/2021 15:06

Thanks for all the responses.
They aren't falling on deaf ears. Rest assured.

I am not going to keep commenting on issues like this as somebody already pointed out there could be issues with legal aspects.

There are a lot of angry men who feel they are under attack from extreme feminism as it is.
This site is a lifeline for many and with the way womens rights speakers are being deplatformed it could add to the hysteria.
Not wise to give them more to throw.

So, I'm staying out of it.

HeadPain · 04/02/2021 16:04

I have his book somewhere. Maybe I'll read it again, don't really want to. This story is apparently in his book, he invited a deaf girl fan to his studio. I remember these kinds of stories...

"I immediately realised that she was deaf because of the way her voice sounded. She told me that she could feel the music when she's close to the stage and that's how she gets her enjoyment from it."

When Alyssa arrived, Manson asked her to take off all her clothes, before he and his bandmates covered her naked body in meat.
"At this point, I didn't think it was very sexual. It was more of a living meat sculpture," he said.
Things escalated after Manson asked two members of his band to perform a sexual act, which led to one band member having sex with Alyssa before the group urinated on her in the shower.

While many readers were understandably shocked by the account, Manson insisted that Alyssa consented to the sex acts.
"I should mention that I do not feel that she was being exploited by any means," he said at the time. "Because despite however many cameras, street musicians, and sketch artists were in the room clapping and dancing around to Slayer or whatever was playing at the time, she was very excited to be a part of it.
"I think she, too, found it to be art and was having a good time.

"We were all shocked and amazed that we were commanding that much sexual power and that there was a naked deaf girl in the studio."

www.tyla.com/entertaining/celebrity-marilyn-manson-girlfriend-abuse-allegations-groupie-urinate-book-20210202

" m.youtube.com/watch?v=WUtPTTHpOec "

Disturbing clip around 24:25, whether it's real or just "art", I don't know, but it still disturbing either way.

More allegations and photographs from different girlfriends and other women in that video. And things he said himself. The photo from his instagram? of his current girlfriend with a black eye, she looks terrified and broken, and another from her instagram? Of a picture of a trash disposal, (is that in retaliation to him?). He comments "pig". I hope all that is not what it looks like.

In that video there's also a page of his book where he says when he was younger he burst his mother's lip open hitting her with a perfume bottle he threw because she came home late and wouldn't tell her where she'd been, he thought she cheated on his dad. He wrote it left a scar to remind her not to have another child. He wrote in "altercations" that followed he spit on her, hit her and tried to choke her, that she never retaliated, just cried and he never felt sorry for her.

HeadPain · 04/02/2021 16:09

[ QUOTE]"Evan Rachel Wood about the abuse she suffered, for the Pheonix Act, which we now definitely know was about Manson, which was much speculated. Completely horrific. He is clearly a very dangerous abusive man.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm2_JCNWTus
[/ QUOTE]

[ QUOTE]
m.youtube.com/watch?v=cobhBZmiihU

m.youtube.com/watch?v=WUtPTTHpOec

mansonisabusive Instagram

MMansonAbuse Twitter"

" esmebiancoofficial.medium.com/read-esme-biancos-grueling-unedited-testimony-as-a-domestic-violence-survivor-in-support-of-the-427e45081fe9

mobile.twitter.com/esmebianco/status/1356382013767344133

celebrityinsider.org/amp/ashley-walters-accuses-marilyn-manson-of-using-mind-control-and-torture-tactics-to-control-her-473565/
"[/ QUOTE]

I definitely believe the allegations.
Very disturbing. They've been through hell. It's obvious they're traumatised in the videos of Esme Bianco and Evan RW testifying for the Phoenix Act (without naming him) to lengthen the statute of limitations in that state to report domestic violence felonies.

Reportedly Evan wanted to press charges but was told she couldn't as the statute of limitations on the crimes done to her had long passed. Phoenix Act was signed into law, increased it from three to five years... which still doesn't help her personally. Not sure any criminal charges can be brought against Manson? www.vulture.com/2019/10/evan-rachel-woods-domestic-violence-bill-signed-into-law.html

Though I read the FBI were investigating, or asked to by California State Senator Susan Rubio.

I don't think I've read the accusations from all of the women, but from the ones I've read here, he was torturing them in every way, extremely. Physically, sexually, psychologically, and food deprivation, sleep deprivation, drugging them, locking them up, threatening them and their families with death, etc etc.

Is this going to go to court?
He is possibly still doing this.
He joked in interviews about locking them up.

The girl who is locked in a room, who he beats to death at the end of his "Running to the Edge of the World" music video is supposed to represent Evan? It's after they split. m.youtube.com/watch?v=gneJDzgkWNo

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