SNP lists - attacks on Joan McAlpine

[SusanSmithFWS]

Today, the SNP NEC met to, supposedly, discuss an emergency definition of transphobia. This was not forthcoming.

What did happen, however, was this. Despite being told this was illegal, the chair put it to the vote and it passed with the support of unelected members with a declared conflict of interest.

We are very worried that this has been done to knock Joan McAlpine off the top list spot for Southern Scotland.

Irrespective of this, we are horrified that a political party would break the law like this.
wingsoverscotland.com/the-death-wish/

Would anyone Scots be willing to give a quick precis of SNP politics for those of us not living in Scotland.

I am a bit confused about the following:

1. Who is Wings in relation to SNP - I know he talks up in favour of women's rights but what does he want aside from that?

2. Do JC and NS represent totally different factions (if so what do they want) and is their only bone of contention around self ID or do they have different ideas for Scotland?

3. Who has most power/public support in all of this (out of JC vs NS)? I read that SNP using the self-ID debate to defenestrate any leadership challenge from JC. Is that the case?

4. are the factions (assuming they exist) really bothered about selfID/feminist needs or is this some kind of issue being used as a proxy war for leadership (this is a take I read on twitter).

PS. I'm stuck in England, but support Scots to do what they want to do with regards to their own country so this isn't supposed to be any kind of political post or jab, I just would genuinely like to understand more about how the self-ID issue relates to Scottish politics overall. It's a bit confusing if you are not subsumed in Scottish media.

@GreenUp

Would anyone Scots be willing to give a quick precis of SNP politics for those of us not living in Scotland.

I am a bit confused about the following:

1. Who is Wings in relation to SNP - I know he talks up in favour of women's rights but what does he want aside from that?

2. Do JC and NS represent totally different factions (if so what do they want) and is their only bone of contention around self ID or do they have different ideas for Scotland?

3. Who has most power/public support in all of this (out of JC vs NS)? I read that SNP using the self-ID debate to defenestrate any leadership challenge from JC. Is that the case?

4. are the factions (assuming they exist) really bothered about selfID/feminist needs or is this some kind of issue being used as a proxy war for leadership (this is a take I read on twitter).

PS. I'm stuck in England, but support Scots to do what they want to do with regards to their own country so this isn't supposed to be any kind of political post or jab, I just would genuinely like to understand more about how the self-ID issue relates to Scottish politics overall. It's a bit confusing if you are not subsumed in Scottish media.

1. Wings Over Scotland is the self- styled "Reverend" Stuart Campbell. Campbell lives in Bath or Bristol or Brighton (I can't remember which) He is fanatically pro- separatist and has been blogging on that issue for years. The SNP don't like him because he is aggressive and very rude and very critical of them. Unionists don't like him because he is aggressive and very rude and very critical of them , although he is useful for Unionists to be able to point to as just how awful separatists can be; which is another reason the SNP don't like him.

1. No idea what motivates either of them or what their factions are beyond the aim of separatism so to that extent for me each is as bad as the other. Cherry is a supporter of Salmond and I'm sure has her sights on leadership.

1. No idea- see answer above - each is as unpalatable as the other. Cherry is a Westminster MP so has no say in what happens at Holyrood. It certainly looks as if self ID is being used as a tool to hinder Cherry's leadership ambitions.

1. There is a very definite faction in the SNP who are genuinely seriously determined to push for Scotland to be the same as Canada and Ireland and want rid of anyone who opposes that. On feminist needs (whatever that might mean) I don't know.

The self ID issue is irrelevant for me. They could drop all talk of it and my opinion would remain the same- namely the SNP's governance of Scotland is dire and separatism is an ill thought out , "little Scotlander", sentimental notion which would be ruinous for Scotland if it ever happened.

So far as Scottish politics- devolution was a bad idea.

Yes, I am coming around to the view that devolution was a bad idea, which is not something I ever thought I would say.

However, Scotland has its own legal system, so presumably could reform the GRA even if it was not devolved. What worries me really about the current situation in Scotland, and not just in relation to the GRA, is that there is no significant opposition to the SNP and some of their decisions seem to be made with lobby groups rather than through a process of democracy. They are also fundamentally, I think, anti-woman (just look at Scots family law, which is in respects a controller’s charter, which is ironic from a country which recognised and legislated for coercive control).

Separatism = Independence
Which is the normal state of things

The SNP seem to be doing everything they can to get rid of anyone who actually wants independence

I use "separatism". I don't see a need for "independence" "independence" from what? The separatists want to break up my county. I'm British.

Talk of "independence" is as unpalatable for me as c*s is for most of you.

Should have mentioned Wings/Stuart Campbell is permanently banned from Twitter.

To add a little on point (3)

@MissBarbary is correct to say “Cherry is a Westminster MP so has no say in what happens at Holyrood. It certainly looks as if self ID is being used as a tool to hinder Cherry's leadership ambitions.”

Joanna Cherry wanted to contest a Holyrood seat in the forthcoming election.

The SNP NEC enacted an emergency rule change to require any sitting MP who wanted to stand for Holyrood to resign so that a by-election for their seat could be held on the same day as the Holyrood poll. So if you didn’t win the Holyrood seat you would be unemployed.

Supporters of Cherry felt this was done to deter her from standing and allow Angus Robertson, who lost his Westminster seat at the last election, to take the nomination for Edinburgh Central (currently Ruth Davidson’s seat).

It prevents Cherry from challenging Sturgeon for leadership at Holyrood.

Handy, that.

On Wings - he is loathed by the woke because many of his posts are gender-critical and hold up what he has dubbed “the Twitler Youth” of the party to the sunlight.

You wouldn’t know about the disability rule change without his blog.

His critics will point to a joke he made about David Mundell coming out as gay to allege he is a homophobe.

Personally I think he does an immense service by shining the sunlight on what the NEC is doing.

Those who would prefer these rule changes to happen in smoke-filled rules don’t like him.

@GreenUp - on 2) Do JC and NS represent totally different factions (if so what do they want) and is their only bone of contention around self ID or do they have different ideas for Scotland?

Joanna Cherry is allied with Alex Salmond.

Alex stood down after losing the referendum and NS took the helm.

Many supporters of independence (Scotland has been a separate, independent country for far more of its history than it has been part of Britain) feel that the SNP under Nicola is simply not pushing hard enough for independence - that the party has become too comfortable with the status quo, troughing in lovely Westminster salaries and all the pension rights that come with that, and dominating Holyrood.

It was rumoured that Salmond intended a return to Scottish politics to put some energy back into the independence movement.

Then the allegations of sexual misconduct were made against him. I don’t know what to believe on the suggestion that the court case was a deliberate conspiracy by Sturgeon and her supporters in the Scottish civil service to permanently remove him from public life. It needs to be examined and the truth needs to come out.

I do think it’s wrong that Nicola Sturgeon’s husband is the chief executive of the SNP.

On 4) are the factions (assuming they exist) really bothered about selfID/feminist needs or is this some kind of issue being used as a proxy war for leadership (this is a take I read on twitter).

Hard to judge with Sturgeon but as a lesbian MP I think Cherry has “skin in the game” on LGB equality. She also pressed Twitter very hard in Parliament on why they weren’t policing misogyny in the same way they policed other “hateful conduct” and forced them to agree that T*RF was a misogynist slur.

I’ll go now. Sorry for the essay.

Should have mentioned Wings/Stuart Campbell is permanently banned from Twitter.

Because of his GC views.
Like many others.

@nancywhisky

Should have mentioned Wings/Stuart Campbell is permanently banned from Twitter.

Because of his GC views.
Like many others.

I thought it was his general and non- specific unpleasantness that got him banned.

He is a horrible man- you don't have to be woke to think that. His saving grace now is the SNP seem to be even more unpleasant than him.

Just to add - I believe Alex Salmond is no longer a member of the SNP. I suspect he will not return to politics despite many wanting him.

Craig Murray writes that Salmond had intended to take a post as Chairman of Johnston Press:-

18. I asked what the motive could be. Alex replied that he did not know ; perhaps it lay in King Lear. He said that he had genuinely intended to quit politics and had lined up a position as Chairman of Johnstone Press, which had fallen because of these allegations. But he had retired from the party leadership before, and then come back, and perhaps Nicola had concluded he needed a stake through the heart. He had made plain to her that he was not happy with her lack of progress towards an Independence referendum following the Brexit vote.

I thought it was his general and non- specific unpleasantness that got him banned.

I'm pretty sure it was misgendering or similar.

He is a horrible man- you don't have to be woke to think that.

"Horrible" or "rude" (or "offensive")? Those are not synonyms.

A lot of this Woke stuff utterly relies on people "being nice" to the Good People while being utterly horrible to anyone in the out group, and having a rather partisan attitude to truth or fairness. Which is horrible.

The people who stand up to it generally seem to be people who are not interesting in playing at "being nice", and are rather non-partisan in that. Which is good.

Most of the people I most respect in journalism have the same basic "I don't care if you think I'm an asshole" attitude that Campbell seems to exhibit. Don't know enough about Campbell's accuracy record to know how much respect he deserves, but I'm generally inclined to believe people with his attitude are more trustworthy.

Joanna Cherry is allied with Alex Salmond

Salmond was of course found not guilty but even his own QC said his conduct had fallen far below acceptable standards. Cherry demanded his reinstatement as soon as the verdict was announced. Cherry's ambition is to be leader and she's tapping into the support Salmond has (see how quickly his crowdfunder filled up)

I don't buy Cherry as the great feminist hope and supporter of women.

"Horrible" or "rude" (or "offensive")? Those are not synonyms

He and his website were vile during the 2014 separatist campaign. And not particularly truthful.

However GC Cherry may be, she is still a member of the SNP. Hitler was a vegetarian, but I still wouldn’t have voted for his party!
The SNP have made a mess of every devolved area they have been given to administer. God help us in Scotland if they ever got their wish to tear Britain apart.

He and his website were vile during the 2014 separatist campaign. And not particularly truthful

This is a matter of opinion - coloured by whether you are pro or anti-independence. His research and stats were invaluable for the pro-indy supporters.

Could we keep the thread on topic please.

There are plenty of other places to share views on the merits or otherwise of dissolving the union.

@Babdoc - you come onto every thread that might have a link to the SNP just to slate them. We get you're not in favour of the SNP. I'm not either.

This thread is about Joan McAlpine who has bravely spoken up about women's rights. On a feminist discussion, could you put your SNP hatred to the side and support a woman under attack?

On a feminist discussion, could you put your SNP hatred to the side and support a woman under attack?

Why? I'm sure Babdoc will speak for herself but I'm not sure why just because McAlpine is a woman I should support one side of a political ideology I despise just because another side of that ideology is giving her a hard time.

@MissBarbary She is being attacked for standing up for women -knowing this is putting her political career in jeopardy. Hardly "one side of a political ideology".

I imagine this is going to be legally challenged.

It’s such a back hand way of pushing someone out.

But this is what all political parties are like.