Political parties, voting - least worst option?

Daca · 30/01/2021 08:21

Hate to break it to you but you’ll have to vote Conservative. Consider joining the party & making it better.

Speak to your MP to let him/her know.

I don’t like this reality, either but this is just where we are in the cold light of day. If politics was about all the good feelz it wouldn’t be politics.

Original poster

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 30/01/2021 08:34

Sorry, @Daca, that's not going to happen. I can't forgive the Tories for Brexit and what they'd done to the NHS and for austerity.

OP posts:

BreatheAndFocus · 30/01/2021 08:54

It depends on your priorities. I’m a Green but I’m not voting for them again while they continue to throw women under the bus and erase our very existence. They can FRO.

Labour are just as bad, as are the LibDems. Both are pathetic - either going for woke points or thinking vacuous guff about ‘being kind’ while not have the brains or the empathy to consider women.

So - despite Brexit, despite Boris, despite a number of policies that I dislike - I will vote Tory. If every woman who cared about this did, it would be over a lot quicker. The other parties would change their policy on this and then we’ll be able to vote for them again.

Party loyalty is very misplaced IMO if people are allowing themselves to vote against their own interests. Half of it is worry about how others see them or their own self-image. Frame it to yourself in a different way - are you going to go along with something that you know is wrong and could get even worse, or are you going to stand up for women, reality and an end to this ridiculous cancel culture and biology denial?

Cyberworrier · 30/01/2021 09:08

I feel in a similar bind, OP.

I’m going to do some research on the Communist Party of Britain, as they seem to be only lefties who care about material reality and sex based rights... I don’t think we need to worry about them actually winning and making UK a communist state. I just want a nice social democracy that cares about women’s rights! The SDP also care about women’s rights but they are fervent pro Brexiteers which puts me off.

morningstaronline.co.uk/article/women-class-and-gender-%E2%80%93-communist-perspective

That said, I never thought I’d have so much admiration for some Tory politicians as I do for Baroness Nicholson and Jackie Doyle.

fakenina · 30/01/2021 09:27

Either Tory, Communist if there is one standing, or SDP (now thats an odd sentance that I never though Id hear myself say)
That or spoil the ballot, with the reasons why.

Helmetbymidnight · 30/01/2021 09:33

but there isnt a general election here for three years? or so- plenty time for lots of change.
if you mean in the locals, im planning to ask the candidates (ha!)
be aware there are many vocal tra's in the cons too eg crispin blunt mp

Original poster

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 30/01/2021 09:56

Yes, probably 2024 for the next one, @Helmetbymidnight. They have a big enough majority to get that far in spite of their massive incompetence. A lot of the more moderate voices in the Tory party stood down or didn't get re-selected before the 2019 election so I can't foresee a huge backbench revolt leading to losing a vote of confidence. I would have thought Johnson would want to put off the election as long as possible in the hope that memories of how he and his useless Cabinet handled both Brexit and the pandemic will have faded a bit.

Perhaps by then Keir Starmer will have found a backbone and stood up to the misogynists in his own party. I can't say I'm holding my breath on that one.

OP posts:

SmallPug · 30/01/2021 10:08

Same position. My Labour MP is TWAW and in favour of self ID. She also seems incredibly thick, despite being a lawyer. Does anyone know much about the Social Democrats?

Daca · 30/01/2021 10:28

I respect your point of view, OP, but Brexit has had a tangible (negative) impact on my life, I’m not impressed by the handling of covid, either, but for me the Tories remain the only serious option (discounting small parties for a moment).

Most British voters are moving on from Brexit, I don’t see us rejoining the EU, and by the time the next election comes around, the pandemic will (hopefully) be over. The gender issue is not going to go away for another decade, I fear, and the TRAs now have the weight of the US government behind them.

highame · 30/01/2021 10:40

How have the Tories destroyed the NHS. I am Labour (I was, I spoiled my ballot, last two elections). A myth has been built up because some Tories would love to privatise the NHS however the majority wouldn't. Tories bend over backwards to try and dispel the myth and they have put more money in than you dare to think of. What they do want, and I would be totally in agreement, is to get efficiency into the organisation and accountability, The NHS is TWAW and mostly because of Unions combined with Stonewall.

All our institutions have a greater or lesser degree of capture and the only party willing to even try to take it on is the Tories. I still wont vote for them, but I do cut them a bit of slack nowadays

gardenbird48 · 30/01/2021 11:09

I agree Highame - contracting out certain services to save money is not the same as privatising the NHS but many people have deliberately conflated the two to make out that the Tories are trying to dismantle it.

There is so much knee jerk information that gets circulated about what the Tories want to do and how they are all in it for the money but there are far better ways to make money that attract far fewer death threats and stress. The hours that MPs work are shocking!

Some MPs are guilty of expenses fiddles and dodginess but all parties are equally guilty of this. Labour were well represented with guilty parties in the expenses scandal.

The way I look at it is only the Tories are prepared to treat women like people with human rights - without that we are rather stuffed. The other parties are being told loud and clear how women feel but they are refusing to listen and actually perpetuating the situation.

Labour is failing to support its own MPs suffering extreme abuse - what message is that sending to everyone?

TheWordWomanIsTaken · 30/01/2021 11:23

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

I'm not going to vote for any party that can't recognise the importance of sex-based rights for women and doesn't grasp basic principles of safeguarding children and other vulnerable groups.

Currently that seems to rule out:
Labour
LibDems
Greens
Women's Equality Party

I don't live in Scotland but if I did the SNP would also be off the table.

I'd rather gnaw my own arm off than vote Tory. If we had a competent, strong, uncorrupt government with a genuine One Nation approach who were also openly defending women's rights in a sane and nuanced way that balanced them with the rights of other groups, maybe it would give me pause, but we don't, and don't seem ever likely to either.

Now as it happens, my vote is an irrelevance in our first past the post system, because I live in a London borough with a Labour council and hardly any councillors from other parties, and our MP is Labour with an enormous majority. Last General Election I voted for the Green candidate because she was openly GC and seemed like a good person - and also I knew she wouldn't be elected so I wasn't doing anything to give the Greens more political power. At local elections I look for an independent candidate who seems sane.

What do others do? Spoil the ballot paper? Abstain? Pick the least worst candidate on the grounds that somebody has to do the job?

All so depressing.

I am actually wondering if you are me!!

I am in exactly the same position but last election just spoiled my ballot. As an uber safe labour seat some would see that as a meaningless gesture but having worked at counts, I know that the candidates or their agents look at every spoiled ballot to see if they can 'claim' it as a vote for them. So I know my comments would have been read.

I guess if we voted tory in our constituency we know they would not win but it would damage the majority and possibly give the Labour party pause for thought - but honestly there would have to be gun at the head of one of my kids for me to do that. I can't forgive the tories for Brexit, NHS and the ideology of austerity ever.

Procrastinator3 · 30/01/2021 11:24

What will happen if tory MPs like Caroline Noakes or Crispin Blunt become more powerful in the party?

DaisiesandButtercups · 30/01/2021 11:44

We don’t really know where the Tory party stands on gender ideology. They are under no pressure to take an explicit point of view.

Many of the hardcore neo liberal capitalist Tories must realise that there is money to be made from the further commodification of human bodies and from destroying an internally located self esteem. Advertising is all about making us feel bad about ourselves so we will spend money to feel better. Gender ideology is that principle on steroids.

Liz Truss it seems has not been fully supported. My own Conservative MP sits firmly on the fence despite being in a safe seat.

I suspect that they are having a fun time watching the parties of the left get all agitated over this topic.

RozWatching · 30/01/2021 11:48

I'd rather gnaw my own arm off than vote Tory. If we had a competent, strong, uncorrupt government with a genuine One Nation approach who were also openly defending women's rights in a sane and nuanced way that balanced them with the rights of other groups, maybe it would give me pause, but we don't, and don't seem ever likely to either.

I hear you but as things stand, that is actually looking like the only option that has any chance of becoming reality in time for the next GE. It is absolutely maddening.

Thelnebriati · 30/01/2021 11:53

It was the Tories that introduced the idea of self ID and got us into this mess, its the Tories that are pushing for 'sex' and 'gender' to be made interchangeable, so IDK why you see them as a viable choice.

RozWatching · 30/01/2021 12:07

Very true TheInebriati, and most of them are still viewing it as a popcorn moment or a chance to score some cheap points from the youths and the corporate dinner party circuit.

Helmetbymidnight · 30/01/2021 12:50

It was the Tories that introduced the idea of self ID and got us into this mess, its the Tories that are pushing for 'sex' and 'gender' to be made interchangeable, so IDK why you see them as a viable choice.

I agree - and they will go where there is money to be made.

I think the important thing is to flush the ideology out over the next three years - and that means those who can, talk to people in RL and in SM about the damage being done to women - unfortunately and ime having them call you bigots/transphobes but carrying on. As more light is being shone on this - people/lurkers/on-lookers are realising what's happening and/or changing their minds.

peak2021 · 30/01/2021 12:55

I look for independents or which ever out of the Lib Dem or Green candidates I dislike the least. The Monster Raving Loony Party have never stood in my area.

Voting Labour is supporting a sect that condoned anti-semitism, voting for the Tories whilst they are led by Boris Johnson is condoning a father who denies some of his own children and serial killing by neglect.

Helmetbymidnight · 30/01/2021 13:03

You might as well say voting Lib Dem is voting for a sect that condones child-abuse or voting for Green is a sect who see women as non-men.
Broad strokes like that don't stand up to scrutiny - and don't help. This is the system we work in. Its imperfect but it is what it is. More and more of us need to get talking, writing and indeed, standing ourselves...

HettieMills · 30/01/2021 13:10

I'm voting Tory. We're heading in the right direction re gender ideology, and I'm voting for the biggest party that will help win this battle. The other parties are unelectable and should one of them win, then we would end up with the appalling Biden situation that American women now find themselves in. And I'm not spoiling my ballot. I want a say in whose in power.

OvaHere · 30/01/2021 13:13

It's difficult because this is a cross party issue. There are supporters and dissenters in pretty much every party (possibly with the exception of the Lib Dems).

The Conservatives currently have the most dissenters but really it's about weighing up your own constituency choices. If you get a more favourable response to questions from your Labour or Green candidate then vote for them.

What we need are MPs who support the rights of women and girls no matter what party they are in and mostly importantly willing to listen.

RozWatching · 30/01/2021 13:36

YY Ova but MPs need to do it publicly.
The 'I agree with you but bear with us, we're working on this behind the scenes' BS won't wash anymore.

SunsetBeetch · 30/01/2021 13:56

I spoiled my ballot last time. Got locals in May and the Tory candidate is pretty safe, so I could do the same again. I don't know what else to do.

highame · 30/01/2021 13:58

All parties do their focus groups to find out how people think and one of the things they definitely do is look at the press. If you notice (which you will have) recently there have been more and more articles seeming to support the GC position and surveys almost definitely do not support the TWAW line. Any political party who panders to mc 'it's cool' ideology is digging there own grave.

Just my opinion but I think the Tories are trying to get rid of all the bias that exists in government and other institutions and that will benefit us. I will vote Labour if they ever go back to the days when they recognised who their voters were and took account of their (working class) opinions. However, the Labour party elite have never liked the working class and now the working class realise that, labour will have to really get it's skates on (don't see Sir K doing that tbh)