Political parties, voting - least worst option?

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

I'm not going to vote for any party that can't recognise the importance of sex-based rights for women and doesn't grasp basic principles of safeguarding children and other vulnerable groups.

Currently that seems to rule out:
Labour
LibDems
Greens
Women's Equality Party

I don't live in Scotland but if I did the SNP would also be off the table.

I'd rather gnaw my own arm off than vote Tory. If we had a competent, strong, uncorrupt government with a genuine One Nation approach who were also openly defending women's rights in a sane and nuanced way that balanced them with the rights of other groups, maybe it would give me pause, but we don't, and don't seem ever likely to either.

Now as it happens, my vote is an irrelevance in our first past the post system, because I live in a London borough with a Labour council and hardly any councillors from other parties, and our MP is Labour with an enormous majority. Last General Election I voted for the Green candidate because she was openly GC and seemed like a good person - and also I knew she wouldn't be elected so I wasn't doing anything to give the Greens more political power. At local elections I look for an independent candidate who seems sane.

What do others do? Spoil the ballot paper? Abstain? Pick the least worst candidate on the grounds that somebody has to do the job?

All so depressing.

You could vote Tory. Give Labour a real shock when they still have time to sort themselves out before the next election.

@Needmoresleep

You could vote Tory. Give Labour a real shock when they still have time to sort themselves out before the next election.

It doesn't really give them a shock if they won't acknowledge why they have lost. That is why I spoilt my ballot and wrote my reasons on it. I'm not for a moment suggesting that others do that (I live in a very safe Labour seat) but at the counts I have worked at, they most certainly do get read as each party or agent will try to claim it as one of theirs if they can show that there was an intent to vote for them. Whether Labour would ever have the courage to actually admit that their dismissal of women and their rights was the a reason I have no idea. I suspect not.

It think it unlikely that I will have the opportunity to vote for the SDP or the Communist party at local elections. Neither were on the ballot for the last GE either as I recall.

Spoiling and writing the reason why is probably my best option if I can’t identify any of the local candidates as openly supporting reality, biology, accurate data collection, freedom of speech and women’s rights.

I do agree with PPs that any candidate from any party who openly and courageously stands for reality, biology, freedom of speech and women’s rights over compelled speech, science denial and the disappearance of women as a sex class would be worth serious consideration and most likely get my vote.

I'm pretty sure that I am going to get booted out of the Labour Party before not too long, for the heinous crimes of supporting women's rights and safeguarding children. This is "bigoted" apparently.

People who respond with allegations of "transphobia" seem to have zero awareness that, in this context, they are the ones being transphobic. And misogynistic. And not giving a flying f@ck about protecting children.

Until then, I will continue to try to do my best to educate and inform. It pisses me off no end that I am paying subs to support a political party that does not even make a pretence of caring about women and girls. I justify it to myself on the grounds that at least I am not preaching to the converted, so I might have some positive impact for change.

When the day comes, I have decided to jump to the SDP.

I voted Remain but I can't see that it makes much sense to be purist about Brexit when:

a) there is so much more at stake in terms of reality vs fantasy at the most fundamental level (not just biological sex but the standing of evidence-based science itself)

b) all the major parties wibble-wobbled or were split about the EU at one time or another.

I can't see the raggle-taggle remnants of the various iterations of the Communist Party getting electable at local or national level.

The Tories, even if I could bring myself to ignore all the policies that I disagree with, are heavily infiltrated. They could turn on a sixpence when Liz Truss and Kemi Badenoch are promoted away from batting for women and sex-based protections. That is very scary, TBH. I feel like we are in a very precarious position, relying on a small number of politicians to even be in a position where they can hold the line.

It is not clear to me if they have the backing of the Conservative Party or if they are going out on a limb. I have read the comments on articles on the "Conservative Woman" site. I may be wrong but I have seen the comments as a reflection of general Tory views, and it is not at all a pretty sight in terms of respect for women or women's rights.

www.conservativewoman.co.uk/category/culture-wars/

The stance of the SDP is unequivocal but what is the chance of real political influence? It too might be hijacked.

Is it more productive to:

a) try to bolster the SDP - a tiny centrist party that (so far) is taking a clear stand against gender woo-woo?

b) support the Tories in holding the line?

c) fight within the heavily captured other Parliamentary parties to restore some semblance of rationality?

(Not mutually exclusive as I can vote Labour, be a member of the LP and still send "Thank You" cards to Liz Truss and Kemi Badenoch, but party membership and voting at elections is what I am thinking of here.)

This is what piqued my interest in the SDP:

"TRANSGENDER AND BIOLOGICAL SEX-BASED RIGHTS"

The liberal pursuit of individual autonomy and desire must be balanced by the common good. Some citizens feel at odds with the physiology and social role associated with their natal sex and can suffer distress. Transgender people should be treated with dignity and respect, in keeping with their acquired gender in most situations. However, these rights must be balanced against the need of natal females for safety and sporting fairness. Biological sex is real and politically significant. This requires an absolute stance on relevant legal definitions in some domains.

Continued at:

sdp.org.uk/policies/transgender-and-biological-sex-based-rights/

At one point, the SPD were not a tiny Centrist party. They were quite a big influence and I believe they were a big reason for Labour rethinking its policies when Militant had a stranglehold on the party in the 80s.

I think they could easily challenge both the LibDems and Labour, as well as attracting more moderate Conservatives. Right now, the main parties are in thrall to extremists. It's putting off an awful lot of voters.

That SDP statement is the most positive thing I've seen for a long time, even if they did only field about 20 candidates in 2019.

Anything at all, tactically, that gets the SNP candidate out of power. I'll vote for a fucking dolphin if it's the tactical alternative.

Was it at an SDP conference that David Steel told everyone to 'go back to your constituencies and prepare for government'?
I've not fact checked but that's what my memory tells me.
And yes those words might make him look a bit of a plonker now, but they did briefly have huge momentum, and with it, a big influence. All mainstream parties were very nervous of them as I remember.

Been mentioned in the Scotland-related threads, but not here - the new ISP is directly targetting gender-critical women, trying to pick up disgruntled SNP voters for the top-up list vote.

2-minute campaign ad here:

twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1356216226054344707

Basically "vote to protect the Equality Act 2010", but specifically regarding sex.

Think that's the first time I've seen a general party directly target the GC vote in a campaign. (The SDP have it in their policy lists, but aren't producing GC/women-focused ads).

Am member of the Labour party but not without periodic despair at the policy and pronouncements that many are coming out with. Am staying in so that I can vote for GC candidates to any positions that come up, support MPs that do stick their head above the parapet and send responses back where I can eg when asked about topics to come up at the Womens conference. Its heartening to see the Labour Women's Declaration and some prominent people who support that but admittedly can feel like candlelight while caving.

Praise where praise is due I do send messages of support out to the Tories when they support policies I agree with but overall could never back them given that in other respects I don't think they would give a rats about women (stance on benefits, demonisation of single mums, potential attacks on working rights, social care cuts impacting more on women as they form a larger % of the very elderly and need more support and now overseas aid cuts that will disproportionately affect women). Also my MP is so lacking in spine I doubt he could take a stand without clearing it through HQ and would cast it aside for a sniff of one extra vote.

Tricky balancing act with no full on allies out there. Hoping the tide turns

Can't vote for the Tories. They have taken this country in a very negative direction over the last 10 years. This cannot be rewarded.

"Was it at an SDP conference that David Steel told everyone to 'go back to your constituencies and prepare for government'?"

David Steele was leader of the Liberals, not a member of the SDP.

Ok thanks Tanith, my memory's playing tricks. Was it still just a Liberal/SDP alliance at that point? Or was it even before the SDP was formed?

No need to answer by the way, I can Google!

Could never vote for the Tories. They might be okay on women (and are they even that - isn't Self ID and GRA originally theirs?) but they're dreadful on everything else.

It's the other way around for most parties. Manifestos I can agree with but shocking on women's rights.

Thinking about spoiling my ballot and voting ISP on the list.

Here's something really interesting. Did you know that the split of votes from working class and middle class was equally shared by Labour and Conservative. I find that really fascinating. Tribalism is now pointless

I did wonder if you might have mixed the Two Davids up, Floisme.
David Owen, leader of the SDP, was seen as much more dominant and charismatic. Do you remember the Spitting Image sketches that had Big David and Little David as a running joke?

Ha yes, how did I manage to forget that
Thanks - that's more useful than anything Google can tell me!

So - despite Brexit, despite Boris, despite a number of policies that I dislike - I will vote Tory. If every woman who cared about this did, it would be over a lot quicker. The other parties would change their policy on this and then we’ll be able to vote for them again.

FFS listen to @BreatheAndFocus, for she speaks the truth.

When it comes to protecting women and girls, I can bring myself to vote for anyone.

Labour was in power when the GRA was passed (2004, I think) and self-ID is part of a coordinated policy push across Western democracies. It's not a typical Tory policy, they were heavily lobbied and then proposed it but it became clear during the consultation of 2018 that things were more ... complicated.

If the Con-Lib Coalition of 2010-2015 had still been in place in 2018, I'm pretty sure we'd have self-ID now. As things went, Lynne Featherstone, a very important trans ally and former government minister, lost her seat in the 2015 GE and now sits in the House of Lords.

Featherstone is a big fan of Jan Morris whose autobiography reveals fascinating insights to those who are familiar with the classic AGP profile.

Labour was in power when the GRA was passed (2004, I think) and self-ID is part of a coordinated policy push across Western democracies. It's not a typical Tory policy, they were heavily lobbied and then proposed it but it became clear during the consultation of 2018 that things were more ... complicated.

If the Con-Lib Coalition of 2010-2015 had still been in place in 2018, I'm pretty sure we'd have self-ID now. As things went, Lynne Featherstone, a very important trans ally and former government minister, lost her seat in the 2015 GE and now sits in the House of Lords.

She has said that as soon as she started work on the equal marriage bill, her civil servants whipped out a transgender strategy plan. Lynne thought it was amazing because she would never have thought of it herself.
Lib dems certainly deserve credit for the part they played in getting equal marriage through, but the two things are so intertwined in their heads that they will never back down on self ID and the rest. It's quite tragic because they should be the first party to oppose this new authoritarianism.

The thing is, same-sex marriage (let's just be precise here - 'equal marriage' is a euphemism that can be unhelpful) and gender identity are entwined. Remember the prominent place that discussions on same-sex marriage had in the original debate on the GRA. Both same-sex marriage and gender self-ID, in different ways, build on the principle that your sex is unimportant to your standing in society.

I am not saying that same-sex marriage is bad but to my mind, a marriage between two members of the same sex differs in important ways from an opposite-sex marriage (e.g. when it comes to procreation). This is just the way things are, no value judgment implied, and it's not a coincidence that some difficult questions arise as a consequence, for example whether a married gay male couple should be able to access surrogacy on the NHS.

The Tories are anti Trans
because they want women tied to the kitchen sink
NOT
because they value women's rights

Its a long time till the next election
CHANGE THE OTHER PARTIES
do not expect the Tories to look out for working women

I have recently considered joining the Tories and putting a bit of pressure on to push them into more moderate, liberal centrist party. There is no plausible opposition in the UK government and it's Tory or SNP in Scotland.

Don't know I would really find much common ground with most Tories, politically, though.

I suppose the thing to do is to write to all prospective MPs/MSPs and ask them about women's rights. In detail. And make it clear that this is my make or break issue for voting.

@MichelleofzeResistance

Anything at all, tactically, that gets the SNP candidate out of power. I'll vote for a fucking dolphin if it's the tactical alternative.

Yes, I'm at this point, now.