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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sarah Phillimore suspended from twitter

354 replies

anothermimsyborogove · 26/01/2021 00:52

Barrister, women's right campaigner, mumsnetter @spero, and hero, Sarah Phillimore has been suspended from Twitter. Actor David Paisley and others are gloating about it.

OP posts:
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Spero · 21/02/2021 11:12

He's REALLY cross about the letter

t.co/ZsAzucB964

I do hope he likes mine just as much.

BarbaraofKent · 21/02/2021 11:30

I think I ought to be able to challenge the statement made by DP that I 'want to burn down a synagogue' for e.g.

I saw that particular tweet and did think that it was a rather ridiculous reach!

Is Joanna Cherry taking legal action against DP or not then? I can't make head nor tail of what is going on from Twitter!

Spero · 21/02/2021 12:27

JC has sent a letter before action which is an attempt to settle before court. If you launch into legal action without trying to settle this can have serious consequences - court may order more costs against you.

Defamation is notoriously difficult and expensive so both sides have an incentive to avoid court I thjnk. My letter should also have gone last week so have chased sols.

PurpleHoodie · 22/02/2021 18:28

Good luck Flowers

So far, far, far more important than any Twitter engagements will be the now huge variety of legal actions underway.

Yes

jj1968 · 22/02/2021 20:59

@Spero

He's REALLY cross about the letter

t.co/ZsAzucB964

I do hope he likes mine just as much.

Does it not seem strange that a free speech campaigner such as yourself should be on the opposite side of this argument to the website you linked to, an organisation that "champions freedom of speech and literature across borders" which is dedicated to defending the freedom of writers?

Joanna Cherry's objection to what Paisley tweeted feels pretty petty to me. It's surely a concern when elected representatives attempt to silence criticism of them, especially given we know that how much money you've got plays a big part in whether you're likely to successfully defend a libel claim or not. I would have thought a free speech campaigner, such as yourself, would be up in arms about this. If Cherry wins or forces a climbdown and this type of thing becomes commonplace then we might end up in a situation where nobody dare criticise their MP anymore in case they get hit with legal threats. Surely that's not a legacy Faircop would want?

teawamutu · 23/02/2021 08:40

Believe this has been answered several times already on this thread, JJ. Have a read.

DeaconBoo · 23/02/2021 09:29

Yes, we definitely discussed the difference between criticism and defamation, but there are loads of legal sites that explain more clearly.

nauticant · 23/02/2021 09:45

Some on this thread think that if you campaign for free speech you become open season for anyone who would like to abuse you and you have to hold back from defending yourself.

Something about that sounds depressingly familiar in a victim blamey kind of way.

Spero · 23/02/2021 11:44

I have explained over and over why there is no contradiction between campaigning for free speech and wanting harassment, incitement to violence and defamation to remain unlawful.

I reported a man to the police for publishing on his blog a massive picture of me alongside my name, address, phone number and accusing me of 'child snatching' and 'being ugly as a transman'

He may have whatever views he likes about my attractiveness. It's irrelevant to me. But he may not publish my private details and incite others to act against me.

The police and CPS agreed and he was convicted. I would do exactly the same again.

I also objected to Barbara Hewson publishing a blog about my daughter, naming her and directing people to her Instagram account.

The BSB agree with me and she was suspended from practice. I would do exactly the same again.

I have read enough from this poster to realise they do not operate in good faith and it is pointless trying to engage them - so this is for anyone else reading. I hope I have been clear.

Freedom of speech is not absolute. It is not a licence or cloak for criminal behaviour. It may not be used to seriously damage another's reputation by saying things which are not true.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/02/2021 12:20

have read enough from this poster to realise they do not operate in good faith and it is pointless trying to engage them - so this is for anyone else reading. I hope I have been clear.

You have. Thank you.

Spero · 23/02/2021 14:10

Interesting update - my Twitter account is back.

I can only assume that is a result of solicitors intervention. The whole thing has been bizarre and very shabby but I hope this gives my defamation action a little further ooomph now.

jj1968 · 23/02/2021 16:05

I have explained over and over why there is no contradiction between campaigning for free speech and wanting harassment, incitement to violence and defamation to remain unlawful.

I was talking about Joanna Cherry's legal threat not yours, and the dangers of MPs using legal threats to silence criticism.

Cherry's letter objects to her being accused of giving money to a hate group when she in fact gave money to someone who founded/runs that group. I think that is petty to say the least, especially as wearefaircop do not appear to be a legally established entity and so in law are just a twitter feed and website and as such it's impossible to tell where the groups begins and the individuals running it ends. If she is successful this could have a huge impact on what people feel able to say about their elected representatives online and it astonishes me that she is being supported by those campaigning for free speech.

Somewhat amusingly she doesn't seem to have a problem with Faircop being called a hate group - in fact her case would depend on establishing a difference between giving money to you, and giving money to Faircop. Presumably she thinks it is defamatory to claim someone donated to Faircop when they didn't on the basis that Faircop is a hate group (because it wouldn't be defamatory to say someone gave money to Oxfam if they didn't - it might be incorrect but it's not a defamation which is something that harms your reputation).

DeaconBoo · 23/02/2021 16:06

@Spero

Interesting update - my Twitter account is back.

I can only assume that is a result of solicitors intervention. The whole thing has been bizarre and very shabby but I hope this gives my defamation action a little further ooomph now.

The why's and wherefores of Twitter policy never seem to make sense - would be interested to know if it was sols' action that prompted anything?
Spero · 23/02/2021 16:22

I guess we may never know what's going on. The whole thing is utterly bizarre. But very shameful if it was my solicitor's intervention. I appreciate that's not an option for everyone.

DayBath · 24/02/2021 19:09

@Spero I've been following this but not commenting as I struggle to follow the legal details. Can you explain what the next steps will be now Twitter has reinstated you? Did they do this to avoid giving you the actual reason for your account being removed, or do they still have to answer that question if you proceed to court?

DayBath · 24/02/2021 19:12

I wonder if Helen lawyered up to ask Twitter why they banned her if they would also spontaneously reinstate her too...just seems awfully convenient that they only fix their mistake when legal proceedings start.

Spero · 24/02/2021 23:11

[quote DayBath]@Spero I've been following this but not commenting as I struggle to follow the legal details. Can you explain what the next steps will be now Twitter has reinstated you? Did they do this to avoid giving you the actual reason for your account being removed, or do they still have to answer that question if you proceed to court?[/quote]
I am afraid I am just as much in the dark as you are!

I will explain what I know.
On 12 and 14th Jan I got 12 hour suspensions for two innocuous comments. I didn't appeal, just deleted.
On 25th Jan I got permanently suspended for an utterly anodyne tweet so I appeal.
On 26th Jan Joanna Cherry tweeted in disgust that I had been banned for something so trivial. That prompted David Paisley to start tweeting that I had been banned for being an Anti Semite and a transphobe and you know how that worked out.
On 28th Jan Twitter Support emailed me to say they had made a mistake and my account had been restored. But it wasn't
On 31st Jan Twitter than emailed me to say I was suspended for attempting to evade permanent suspension. I replied to say this made no sense. I also instructed solicitors as it was clear that what Paisley and Blackman were saying was getting a lot of coverage.
On 8th Feb I complained to the Better Business Bureau, explaining that this was serious as I was instructing solicitors to consider going to court over defamation and I need to know what was going on with my account.
On 18th Feb Twitter sent a really aggressive email saying my account would not be restored, I was banned for 'multiple breaches of the rules' and I must not reply to this email or make any further appeals; they would not read anything I sent.
On 22nd Feb my solicitors wrote directly to the Twitter Public Policy officers to explain that they would need to apply for an order for disclosure of the reasons why I was suspended
On 23rd Feb around lunch time, without any communication to me or my solicitors, my Twitter account was restored.

So on that timeline it looks as if it was my solicitors letter than prompted the account to be restored, but I do not know for sure as Twitter have not had any further contact with me, or them.

I am baffled and frankly scared by the whole thing. It is clear to me at least that the reason for my suspension was ridiculous and nothing whatsoever to do with transphobia or Anti Semitism. Twitter apparently agreed... then over ruled itself and simply made up a bogus reason for continuing the suspension. I had done nothing to 'evade' suspension. I had not committed 'multiple breaches' of their terms of service.

While of course I am very glad to have my account back, given the absolutely horrible things people were claiming about me (including that I was banned for Holocaust Denial) I find the decisions taken by Twitter and the way they communicate unacceptably lacking in transparency, or even worse, indicating some deliberate attempt to remove me from the platform.

There is something very bad being allowed to happen and I do worry that we are all being distracted from this by some admittedly very urgent matters about women's rights. 'Big Tech' is more influential than many Governments. Yet they appear utterly unaccountable and seriously opaque in terms of their decision making. To be banned from social media would now be a serious problem for many people, given its ubiquity.

I hope it wasn't my solicitors who persuaded Twitter to restore my account. Because that simply underscores that only people with the money to pay lawyers can ever hope to be treated with anything approaching fairness. My solicitors bill is now in the region of £7K which is insane. And it also suggests that Twitter really didn't want to be ordered to provide any information about why they behaved in the way they did.

I think Joanna Cherry is right to raise this as a human rights issue and it does need careful scrutiny.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 25/02/2021 00:28

And it also suggests that Twitter really didn't want to be ordered to provide any information about why they behaved in the way they did.

It absolutely does.

AnotherLass · 25/02/2021 00:53

I completely agree Spero. It's absolutely terrifying.

Glinner mentioned something about a "secret" to be revealed on his video today which from the context I thought was probably that they are putting together a legal action against Twitter. Which is very good news if true.

Spero · 25/02/2021 07:00

That would be very interesting. And would be a good platform for discussion about the difference between 'hate' and 'dangerous' speech. But they are going to need very deep pockets.

DayBath · 25/02/2021 08:41

Thanks for the summary Spero. It is incredibly chilling to think of the wider implications of this. Twitter can curate the content on its platform to any political end and doesn't have to answer to anyone about why it does this. Shock

Spero · 25/02/2021 09:29

Quite. And all those saying - it's a private company, it doesn't owe you anything, just think about the implications of what you are saying. How the world works now, the ubiquity of social media and electronic communications. To remove people's access to social media is becoming more and more significant.

If I was banned from Zoom like Posie is threatened with - would it extend to Micro soft Teams ? How would I do my job if I wasn't allowed to access a remote court hearing via either platform?

Spero · 08/03/2021 18:42

For anyone interested, here is how the saga has played out.

www.faircop.org.uk/if-you-can-bear-to-hear-the-truth-youve-spoken/

Thecatonthemat · 08/03/2021 18:53

Sorry that you have decided to withdraw, but hope you stay sane as a result ... solidarity and best wishes

Xanthangum · 08/03/2021 19:02

Although saddened, speaking as one of your thousand donors I am very happy to support the individuals and causes you are putting the rest of the money towards. Stay strong!

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