Arizona lawmaker proposes murder charges for women who terminate pregnancy.

[BuntingEllacott]

For those of us outside the US, this kind of story is exactly why it is such a febrile situation for the rights of women and girls over there. I really think it's important to not lose sight of the different contexts in which feminists are having to make their stand.Yes, the removal of sex-based protections should be challenged, but I cannot fault US feminists who look at the way reproductive rights are so precarious in their own country, let alone worldwide, and feel this is the more important battle for the time being. We all have limited resources in a system so completely stacked against us.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.12news.com/amp/article/news/politics/executions-for-abortion-arizona-bill-would-treat-procedure-as-murder-but-backlash-is-growing/75-69b0899d-d68e-4c70-9372-a0ddf8083170

Ironically I wonder if this is discrimination now that Biden has prioritised gender identity.

Men can be murdered too if they abort their babies as men can get pregnant too?!

I do not raise this in jest, it's clearly not a laughing matter, I'm more astounded at the obvious reasons why sex matters more than ever. Horrific.

It's just another area of the fight. I hope the American women have it in them.

Yet they can not wear masks, ignore social distancing and contribute to hundreds of thousands of deaths with no problems,?

This is horrific. I don't envy US feminists their situation. We often say it's like whac-a-mole over here, but it's still the Wild West for women's rights in many respects over there & the federal system means that there's a never ending number of battles to fight.

Apparently using contraceptive devices such as the coil would constitute murder.

Jesus Going so even as a preventive it's murder abs then if this contraception method fails abs you want an abortion you're a murderer!

This is insanity. Talk about being between the devil and the deep blue.

And their support for childcare payments/nursery provision/maternal healthcare/maternity rights/maternity pay etc...?

That’ll be a no then.

I've just read more about it via a pro life page, and the long, long string of comments calling for the death penalty and shouting down even the moderate prolifers who view women who terminate as victims has left me so shaken. Biden will not heal this. No one could. The extremes of polarisation are just going to widen.

And yes, I couldn't help noticing the seething misogynists calling for these women to die all said 'women', not men or non binary people. They know who they really hate and want to control. I think I need to go do something soothing. I feel sick.

@UppityPuppity

And their support for childcare payments/nursery provision/maternal healthcare/maternity rights/maternity pay etc...?

That’ll be a no then.

Ain't that the truth. No, good old fashioned biblical punishment of living with then consequences of your actions regardless of background or consequence. Biblical misogyny made legislation.

I just can't get my head around these people who call for women to be killed but call themselves 'pro life'. They're not very pro women's lives, are they?

Horrific. I cannot wrap my head around the reasoning.

They're against internal contraceptive devices - not all contraceptives.

If a man wears a condom, isn't he guilty of murder?

American women have my sympathies. It was like having to choose between taking home a Rottweiler or a snake in the grass.

Sorry meant circumstances not consequence

@Goingtothebudgies

They're against internal contraceptive devices - not all contraceptives.

Does the pill count as internal in their mad world? Aren't condoms internal from the perspective of the woman? Honestly, my mind is boggling with how utterly shit the discourse around women and their bodies is.

And yes, I couldn't help noticing the seething misogynists calling for these women to die all said 'women', not men or non binary people. They know who they really hate and want to control.

Oh there's no confusion whatsoever. Just a lot of convenient word play.

We are going to need an international women's liberation movement, and it's going to need to be of a size and strength the suffragettes couldn't have dreamed of. And with this kind of blatant misogyny increasing daily, the foundations are being set for it.

How will they differentiate between miscarriage and abortion? Or do they intend to emulate El Salvador, where women are in prison, sometimes for decades, for miscarrying? Do they not think that "...deeply harms the woman – both physically and emotionally."

What about the father of the aborted foetus? Will he bear any of the responsibility for abortion - particularly if he forced its creation, or cannot or will not take responsibility for its care and upbringing after its birth?

Until a foetus is capable of surviving unsupported , it is a part of the woman's body, not an independent "baby girl". Until then it is only a potential human being. If they want to ban contraceptives, will they punish men for jerking off and murdering millions of potential human lives? Will they punish women for refusing to become pregnant and murdering at least one potential human life every month?

Total insanity.

Funny, it was about 6 months ago (on a thread about Trump v Biden) where I floated the idea that the repeal of Roe v Wade was not the worst thing that could happen in a Trump second term - I could envisage a situation where abortion was ruled to be murder at a federal level.

I feel like bloody Cassandra.

Thanks for this post. It's exactly our problems we anticipate in the US because we've seen the erosion of Roe v Wade in droplets and that's why conservatives felt they had a friend in Trump (and evangelical conservative who wants Biblical punishment served on women in the US is probably nothing much like a run of the mill Tory in the UK).

@Goingtothebudgies

If a man wears a condom, isn't he guilty of murder?

And this is why a proposal won’t stick if aimed at contraception.

Jelly you are reminding me of Elle Woods in legally blonde.

Crazy that could now be realistic instead of the comedy intended.

Bunting - making women a legal category that includes men is always still the worse evil.

If women remain women and we can say we are women without prosecution for hate crimes for speaking the truth then we are free to again organise and campaign and fight to re establish legal protection over reproductive rights.

If women means anyone who feels like it today then we have no way of having a women’s only organisation to voice our needs and to stand up for our rights.

Option one puts us back 50+ years ago. Option two erases us for good. With no way to repair that and fight as a group.

Squeaky, I really don't need to be told about the significance of retaining sex as a category. I am saying that I think it's helpful for everyone to understand the different pressures women are in in differing contexts. Sorry, but I'd really appreciate it if a thread about men in power attempting to prosecute women, and perhaps have them executed, for having a termination didn't become another run down of the specific gender topic. I know it matters, that's why I've been campaigning about it for years. But abortion rights matter too, and this particular iteration of attack is quite clearly not even slightly muddled by gender confusion.

Horrific and i find it disturbing that no democrat presidents have tackled this but trans right to take women’s rights was a day 1 concern.

@SqueakyCarrots

Jelly you are reminding me of Elle Woods in legally blonde.

Crazy that could now be realistic instead of the comedy intended.

I don't know that film.