Arizona lawmaker proposes murder charges for women who terminate pregnancy.

[BuntingEllacott]

For those of us outside the US, this kind of story is exactly why it is such a febrile situation for the rights of women and girls over there. I really think it's important to not lose sight of the different contexts in which feminists are having to make their stand.Yes, the removal of sex-based protections should be challenged, but I cannot fault US feminists who look at the way reproductive rights are so precarious in their own country, let alone worldwide, and feel this is the more important battle for the time being. We all have limited resources in a system so completely stacked against us.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.12news.com/amp/article/news/politics/executions-for-abortion-arizona-bill-would-treat-procedure-as-murder-but-backlash-is-growing/75-69b0899d-d68e-4c70-9372-a0ddf8083170

Gosh there really are some vengeful crackpots out there. What an awful situation for women in the US.

Squeaky I should think one of the issues is that we (UK) have been so accustomed to having our right to terminate a pregnancy for so long, that it seems inconceivable that the US would be so far behind. We are fighting the gender war now and we should be mindful of the issues faced by American (especially poor) women. I assume the coil being targeted is because it is cheap and in place as long as needed, whereas the pill has to be paid for and men (because it is men) can target companies so that women workers contraception has to be paid for privately. Disadvantage is piled on disadvantage. Roe v Wade massively important

@highame

Squeaky I should think one of the issues is that we (UK) have been so accustomed to having our right to terminate a pregnancy for so long, that it seems inconceivable that the US would be so far behind. We are fighting the gender war now and we should be mindful of the issues faced by American (especially poor) women. I assume the coil being targeted is because it is cheap and in place as long as needed, whereas the pill has to be paid for and men (because it is men) can target companies so that women workers contraception has to be paid for privately. Disadvantage is piled on disadvantage. Roe v Wade massively important

I'm not sure about this but I think the reason the coil is being targeted is because it doesn't prevent ovulation or conception, it prevents implantation. I expect they consider it abortive.

An Arizona bill proposed by Rep. Walt Blackman, a Republican representing Snowflake, would change Arizona law to add "an unborn child in the womb at any stage of development" as a person, allowing prosecutors to charge both the women who obtain an abortion with "homicide by abortion," according to a report from Arizona Central.

Blackman has previously espoused staunch anti-abortion views, saying in August that people who are pro-choice need to "spend some time in our Arizona penal system," according to the report. Under the proposal, women and their doctors could be charged with first-degree murder, a charge that carries the possibility of the death penalty.

Current Restrictions on Arizona Abortions
Arizona maintains some of the toughest restrictions on abortion of any state. As of March 2020, the following restrictions were in effect:
A woman seeking an abortion is required to first undergo in-person counseling at a designated abortion facility. This counseling is designed to discourage her from going through with the abortion. After the counseling, the woman must still wait another 24 hours before undergoing the abortion
Abortion cannot be covered by healthcare plans available in the state’s health exchange, except in cases of grave danger to life or health. The same is true of health insurance policies offered to public employees.
A minor cannot obtain an abortion without parental consent.
Arizona generally does not allow abortions past 24 weeks into a pregnancy, at which fetal viability is possible. The former limit of 20 weeks, effective until 2012, was struck down in federal court.
Healthcare professionals cannot use telemedicine to prescribe abortion medication.
Arizona places heavy burdens on abortion clinics with respect to equipment and staffing standards.
Medicaid does not cover abortions, even if they are medically necessary.
An ultrasound must be performed at least 24 hours before an abortion. The healthcare provider must allow the patient a chance to see the ultrasound before the abortion is performed.
Once a fetus reaches viability, abortion is permitted only when the mother’s life or health are in danger.
Mothers may not obtain abortions that are motivated by the race or gender of the fetus.

I'm not sure about this but I think the reason the coil is being targeted is because it doesn't prevent ovulation or conception, it prevents implantation. I expect they consider it abortive.

That. Some quarters are very outspoken about the coil for precisely that reason.

America IS facing the possibility of going down the El Salvador route
This was proposed in Ohio in 2019...
A bill to ban abortion introduced in the Ohio state legislature requires doctors to “reimplant an ectopic pregnancy” into a woman’s uterus – a procedure that does not exist in medical science – or face charges of “abortion murder”

( A procedure if it existed could have meant I had 2 children instead of zero fallopian tubes...)

Remember that this is the only western democracy without paid maternity. Women on crappy minimum wages or not working, can't afford to travel twice to a clinic, can't get time off. But also can't afford a hospital birth and have no maternity.

Why aren't these wankers offering paid maternity, paid birth costs, paid nursery, paid benefits, paid expenses? And the very best way to have less abortions is good contraception, free and available and good quality sex education. Neither of which they like.

They appear to want unwanted children living in abject poverty with debt-riddled parents. I'm not Christian but I don't believe that's what Jesus would do.

God, the US gets more fucked up by the day.
For a brief moment of levity, I am reminded of this song from Monty Python...

www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiItK_zx7buAhVXQkEAHVoaCIkQwqsBMAN6BAgHEAg&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DfUspLVStPbk&usg=AOvVaw3yixW2LLUN1XCOuzryrGhE

@BruceAndNosh

America IS facing the possibility of going down the El Salvador route This was proposed in Ohio in 2019... A bill to ban abortion introduced in the Ohio state legislature requires doctors to “reimplant an ectopic pregnancy” into a woman’s uterus – a procedure that does not exist in medical science – or face charges of “abortion murder”

( A procedure if it existed could have meant I had 2 children instead of zero fallopian tubes...)

That is horrifying

those great days when offending didn't result in job losses.

There have been lots of 'proposed' batshit ideas, but they are either dropped, or overridden. However, until women are able to live with the certainty that they have the right to chose what happens to their own bodies, then fear is necessary. Loud voices do not mean the whole of society agrees and we know that for a fact

@MrsTerryPratchett

Remember that this is the only western democracy without paid maternity. Women on crappy minimum wages or not working, can't afford to travel twice to a clinic, can't get time off. But also can't afford a hospital birth and have no maternity.

Why aren't these wankers offering paid maternity, paid birth costs, paid nursery, paid benefits, paid expenses? And the very best way to have less abortions is good contraception, free and available and good quality sex education. Neither of which they like.

They appear to want unwanted children living in abject poverty with debt-riddled parents. I'm not Christian but I don't believe that's what Jesus would do.

It's the committed comic-collector mentality: a comic is valuable as long as it is in its original envelope, pristine, unread, unexperienced. The moment it is removed from the original envelope it becomes worthless and of no interest to the collector.

@NorthernIrishFeminist

Horrific and i find it disturbing that no democrat presidents have tackled this but trans right to take women’s rights was a day 1 concern.

Bingo

Well part of the idiocy of the US is that it is a Federation of largely autonomous & powerful States. So Biden has zero control or power over abortion laws. The only federal level influence is via the Supreme Court with Roe vs. Wade. But abortion is not something congress can decide or send a bill to Biden to sign to make a decision on. That power is with each State and some of them don’t give a fig for women’s rights. US citizens tend to vote with their feet and will move to a State that has laws they are most in agreement with.

But Trans was never given to the States to handle. Civil rights have always been at Federal level, unlike reproductive (abortion) rights.

As revolting as it is, this bill is merely a stunt. There’s no plan or possibility of passing, and he knows it. It’s simply red meat for this state congresspersons women-hating base. It has little to do with the pres. election - it would have no more hope of passage no matter if trump had been re-elected.

There are of course plenty of other state bills on abortion that may undergo judicial review (and which are currently killing women in other states). We should focus our energies there.

Civil rights have always been at Federal level, unlike reproductive (abortion) rights.

Sort of. The fed control of civil rights is about what states are NOT allowed to do. Eg you can’t make a law that violates free speech or which removes the right to vote from someone based on their race or sex, for example.

States can certainly go beyond and protect civil rights more strongly than what is proscribed by the constitution. Plenty of states extended marriage rights to gays and lesbians prior to the feds taking it up. And plenty of states have stronger protections / better accommodations for people with disabilities than what the ADA requires, for example.

Oh, absolutely, I knew it wasn't likely to pass, but posted it to show the backdrop against which feminists are working in the US. I mean, the very notion that anyone in a position of power in this country would even table a bill like this is inconceivable, but the climate in the US is very different. So even though it won't pass, it's a good barometer of what the US is like for women compared to the UK, and the different battle fronts that exist. I do very much appreciate the encouraging thought that it has no hope, I was quite despondent when I first saw it, and I guess you do never know when something like that could gain traction. It's still horrible to contemplate how many people really despise women.

@FWRLurker
Yes thank you for expanding on that. With civil rights, the Fed set a baseline in law that no state can violate. But states can be more restrictive.

With abortion, there is no federal law. No baseline. There is only case law done by the Supreme Court, Roe v Wade, and while it holds some sway, states can pass laws that challenge Roe v Wade if they feel like it and think they can avoid or win a case going to Supreme Court.

@FWRLurker
There are of course plenty of other state bills on abortion that may undergo judicial review (and which are currently killing women in other states). We should focus our energies there.

Exactly! Well put.