Wednesday: The End of Sport for American Girls

[WootMoggie]

This screengrab is from the new presidents own web site.

I wonder how this well this is going to go down when they try to implement it.

I cant help feeling there is something very sinister about that man.

Biden is not a supporter of women's rights, or even of women. Being a better choice than Trump was a very low bar to step over.

That last sentence gives me a profound feeling of dread.

Fucking hell.

Biden is not our friend.

Who was it who said that the only difference between right wing men and left wing men is the position of the boot on women's necks?
QED Biden

Though it’s awful for women in the US, it has often been said that sports will be the fastest way to wake everyone up to the unfairness. But yes, that statement is properly chilling.

I've said this before but I don't think sport will wake people up.

A minority will see how blatantly unfair it is - but I think they can already see how unfair it is.

The "beeee kind" lot will simply say "isn't it amazing how good trans women are at sport? Isn't it great to see them shining and really coming into their own?"

Then there's that large proportion of men who think women's sport is a bit of a joke anyway (and remember many men in positions of power within sports governing bodies think this way - Sepp Blatter, cycling England). They'll be rubbing their thighs together with glee.

Then there are the jingoistic Colonel Blimp types who're in it for the medal table. They won't care so long as "our" transwomen are better than "their" transwomen.

Nope, this is one of those points where "women don't realise how much men hate them" is really going to come home to roost.

And yup, the precise position of the boot on the neck doesn't much matter when you're the one underneath.

Maybe they'll let us have an "androgen deficient women" category in th Paralympics.

The second sentence calls it ‘guidance’, but it then goes on to say it will be ‘vigorously enforced’. Why such language? It matters - as much as I want to fence-sit and say perhaps they don’t fully realise the issues (be kind etc), it doesn’t tally with this hard-line approach. Alarm bells

I've said this before but I don't think sport will wake people up.

Agree. I thought prisons would wake everybody up but no, we are still here arguing why women shouldn't be locked up with male born sex offenders.

I suspect there will be cases of very rich people's daughter's missing out on university sports placements and maybe those people will kick up enough of a fuss about it. But otherwise I think it's over for women's sports in the US.

Does anyone know how the girls in Connecticut are getting on?

carlaCox

I've said this before but I don't think sport will wake people up.

Agree. I thought prisons would wake everybody up but no, we are still here arguing why women shouldn't be locked up with male born sex offenders.

I am concerned that this is true - but remember, most people don’t know what is happening and when you tell them, for example, rapists are being placed in women’s jails - it’s clearly so dangerous and an affront to the women in the jails, that people don’t believe you. It’s the same with sport - but the picture of mediocre men winning in women’s sports - due only to their clear maleness - is evidence the public cannot deny. I know that people often don’t mind if it means their team wins - but soon their team won’t win because of the male and the ONS survey was clear - the UK public support trans rights but overwhelmingly DO NOT support males in women sport or males without genital surgery in female spaces. I assume / hope this is the same for the US.

Not nice - but I am hoping that some senior members of Biden’s team have daughters who miss out, before every other woman and girl misses out or are harmed.

@UppityPuppity

carlaCox

I've said this before but I don't think sport will wake people up.

Agree. I thought prisons would wake everybody up but no, we are still here arguing why women shouldn't be locked up with male born sex offenders.

I am concerned that this is true - but remember, most people don’t know what is happening and when you tell them, for example, rapists are being placed in women’s jails - it’s clearly so dangerous and an affront to the women in the jails, that people don’t believe you. It’s the same with sport - but the picture of mediocre men winning in women’s sports - due only to their clear maleness - is evidence the public cannot deny. I know that people often don’t mind if it means their team wins - but soon their team won’t win because of the male and the ONS survey was clear - the UK public support trans rights but overwhelmingly DO NOT support males in women sport or males without genital surgery in female spaces. I assume / hope this is the same for the US.

Not nice - but I am hoping that some senior members of Biden’s team have daughters who miss out, before every other woman and girl misses out or are harmed.

I have spoken to someone irl about prisons before and been told that it is just "a transphobic dog whistle" to bring that subject up. Same with sport. It's depressing that it basically means that people don't care about the rights of female prisoners or female athletes. It's just not cool to care about them anymore.

Adding it to my list of "things you can't talk about on this issue because they are "dog whistles"":

• prisons

-sport -free speech

“I have spoken to someone irl about prisons before and been told that it is just "a transphobic dog whistle" to bring that subject up”
Do they believe that it doesn’t happen then or that it doesn’t matter?
I think that some people will only start waking up when places meant for women are nearly all taken by transwomen and they’ll realise that the people these things were meant to help are no longer being helped and even then, some may still not see it, they’ll just see “women” in these spots

I think sport is much more likely to wake people up than prisons (sadly for women prisoners), especially in the US.

I’ve seen quite a bit of muttering about this on Reddit (which is hugely pro-trans), lots of people can see how wrong it is.

Biden made his intentions perfectly clear before his election but even on here it was impossible to discuss it without someone turning up to call us Trump supporters. I'm afraid I don't think there's anything that can be done now.

Still impossible to discuss it without someone turning up to call you Trump supporters tbf.

Yes I'm sure someone will be along soon.

@EyesOpening

“I have spoken to someone irl about prisons before and been told that it is just "a transphobic dog whistle" to bring that subject up” Do they believe that it doesn’t happen then or that it doesn’t matter? I think that some people will only start waking up when places meant for women are nearly all taken by transwomen and they’ll realise that the people these things were meant to help are no longer being helped and even then, some may still not see it, they’ll just see “women” in these spots

They have (probably) filed it under "don't think about that because it brings up awkward cognitive dissonance where I might develop an opinion that isn't on my required list"

I don't know whether it's always been the case, but it feels more and more like political opinions polarise so much that if you are on "one side" you have to sign up to hate everything the "other side" stands for and unequivocally support everything that "your side" stands for.

The arguments that this applied without consideration for women will be dangerous for women has gone unheeded by both men and women, both in the US and here.
I think the US have already lost the theoretical argument, but I think we should see that against the woeful lack of protection that transgender people have in the US to start with.
I'm getting the impression that the UK Government (maybe not Scotland) is beginning to see some of the problems. Although not until after harm has been done - like Keira Bell's case.
It will be interesting, but not necessarily in a good way, to see how public opinion reflects on men displacing women in elite sports. This is much more visible than prisons or changing rooms.

This flies under the radar .... and buried, like so many of our hard fought rights.

Sorry, have just listened to Eddie Izzard talking about 'girl mode' and how he will be acting in boy mode. So depressing.

I tried to have the trans chat with a couple of my American (Democrat) friends recently and all I got in response was "I think we should listen to the people who are directly affected by this". I said "women, women are directly affected by this, you're allowed to have an opinion on this as it affects you!" and she just shut the conversation down.

The whole thing has become wrapped in this quasi-religious identity politics in the US whereby it's blasphemy to even try to question it. These people are in the minority but they're the ones with all the power so my hopes of it changing are pretty slim.

@CaraDuneRedux

I've said this before but I don't think sport will wake people up.

A minority will see how blatantly unfair it is - but I think they can already see how unfair it is.

The "beeee kind" lot will simply say "isn't it amazing how good trans women are at sport? Isn't it great to see them shining and really coming into their own?"

Then there's that large proportion of men who think women's sport is a bit of a joke anyway (and remember many men in positions of power within sports governing bodies think this way - Sepp Blatter, cycling England). They'll be rubbing their thighs together with glee.

Then there are the jingoistic Colonel Blimp types who're in it for the medal table. They won't care so long as "our" transwomen are better than "their" transwomen.

Nope, this is one of those points where "women don't realise how much men hate them" is really going to come home to roost.

And yup, the precise position of the boot on the neck doesn't much matter when you're the one underneath.

Maybe they'll let us have an "androgen deficient women" category in th Paralympics.

This is exactly what i think and have said in RL

My dh and dad like athletics etc and although they both say it’s unfair (now ive spoken to them) they won’t do anything about it

Best case scenario is that they just stop watching womens sports...because it’s unfair

Lots of States wont implement. Didn't Biden commit to healing the divide. There are elections in 2 years time. If Biden goes all out woke, they will lose seats in both the houses. The Democrats can't afford to do that

I don't know whether it's always been the case, but it feels more and more like political opinions polarise so much that if you are on "one side" you have to sign up to hate everything the "other side" stands for and unequivocally support everything that "your side" stands for.

^^This. Especially, it seems, in the US.