Are we going to have to start using people with vaginas

[itispersonal]

As much as I hate this term, with the war on 'women' as it is with the sports, changing rooms, swimming pools, women's aid etc. The swimming pool in Sydney being the latest place to backtrack and allow all trans women in the women's pool.

Do we actually need places to start saying these spaces are only for people with vaginas? As surely this can't be argued against, men can't them claim to have one, unlike them being able to claim to be a 'woman'.

Obviously I am hopeful this wouldn't be for long, but for long enough for this identity politics (bullshit) to pass and people referring to women and men back in the biological/ common sense terms.

Oh gawd what did I say?

Something 'not in the spirit' is my guess.

Nah. No. Nope. Nah-har.

All of them complete sentences 😁

Something 'not in the spirit' is my guess

I wish we got some feedback. It's hard not to fall foul of the language rules again if you don't know exactly what the misdemeanour was in the first instance.

Trans women are not waging a war on women.

I think you can email to ask if you're not sure.

I think there is quite enough using of people with vaginas as it is.

@sweetaffaj

Trans women are not waging a war on women.

So they won't mind if woman means people with vaginas, and they won't mind if people with vaginas refer to themselves as women, and transwomen will be happy to refer to themselves as transwomen?

Trans women are not waging a war on women.

Do they just want to pee hun?

I don't think you really understand what it means for someone to wage a war. Do you think trans women are actually filled with active hate for cis women? They are more likely to face a bunch of violence in various forms but they're waging 'war' on us? War is being waged against trans women by a white supremacist patriarchy and it's up to feminists to support them.

They are more likely to face a bunch of violence in various forms

No, no they're not

@sweetaffaj

I don't think you really understand what it means for someone to wage a war. Do you think trans women are actually filled with active hate for cis women? They are more likely to face a bunch of violence in various forms but they're waging 'war' on us? War is being waged against trans women by a white supremacist patriarchy and it's up to feminists to support them.

Why is it up to feminists to support male born people all the time? They've benefitted from patriarchy so they don't need us - we've got enough to deal with tackling rampant misogyny already. We aren't support humans.

It really really isn't feminisms 'job' to support transwomen.

I am with you 100% Uppity Puppity. We are women. I found it rather odd to see so many feminists referring to “females” when I came to this debate. It reminded me of the dad in the channel 4 comedy “Friday Night Dinner”! Sure we are adult human females. More usually known as women. We must hold the line for women and girls, for mothers, for lesbians. These are our words.

@KinkyFink They are women. Feminists support women by opposing the patriarchy. You can not want to support them but if you meaningfully oppose gender, the patriarchy and capitalism then you support them.

@HecatesCats

They are more likely to face a bunch of violence in various forms

No, no they're not

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/17/trans-people-twice-as-likely-to-be-victims-of-in-england-and-wales

A dick free zone, maybe that's the wording needed!

They object to the fact of it being a dick free zone. This is not a case of finding the right words to explain that this is a no penis zone. Their goal is to allow certain males into the no dick zones purely on the basis of the males' wishes irrespective of the women's wishes.

Word play is not the solution. Enforcement of equality law is the solution.

I don't know what the legislation is like in Oz. Do women still have the right to sex-based services even when males demand access.

[quote sweetaffaj]@KinkyFink They are women. Feminists support women by opposing the patriarchy. You can not want to support them but if you meaningfully oppose gender, the patriarchy and capitalism then you support them.[/quote]
So Eddie Izzard who rose to fame while Eddie was unequivocally male (and other white middle class 'transwomen' like Eddie who have benefitted from male privilege all their lives) are not beneficiaries of patriarch? They are now the most vulnerable amongst us and our feminism must centre them?

Well that's a timely illustration of why the word 'woman' should not be up for negotiation, so thank you.

Patriarchy

@Floisme

Well that's a timely illustration of why the word 'woman' should not be up for negotiation, so thank you.

Yup. @sweetaffaj not everyone agrees with the statement that TWAW. It's an opinion, not a fact.

not everyone agrees with the statement that TWAW. It's an opinion, not a fact.

It's not even an opinion. It's a falsehood. Trans women are men, otherwise they would just be women. Woman is a biological easily understood category, not something based on feelings.

Opposing capitalism is not part of feminism. Two different isms.

Dare I ask sweetaffaj for your definition of the word woman?

On 25th November @sweetaffaj - International Violence Against Women Day - we remembered the 341 women who had been killed in the UK in 2020. The figure was higher by the end of the year. No Transwomen were killed in the UK between Trans day of remembrance 2019 & 2020.

@HecatesCats I don't know who that is and I don't know any white middle class trans women so I'd imagine they do have a fair bit of privilege. They don't represent all trans women though.