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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women's Baths in Sydney coping flak for confirming it's women onlu

76 replies

DrJump · 11/01/2021 10:39

m.facebook.com/McIversLadiesBaths/?ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_comment_follow

They have re confirmed they are single sexed but it's pretty awful rubbish bring spouted.on the post. I'm sure they could use some love.

OP posts:
Cattasaurus · 12/01/2021 09:08

@Soubriquet

It’s so depressing seeing how many women are screaming “TWAW”

Way to through us all under the bus. Yet if it was men’s only swimming, I bet this wouldn’t happen

Have you ever seen a men's only swimming? My local pools only have women only times, I think they should have men only times too.
AnyOldPrion · 12/01/2021 09:14

I see people say Australia is more misogynistic than the UK,

If this was in response to my comment, I didn’t say that. I made no comparison. For what it’s worth, I live outside the UK and get the impression it has become more misogynistic since I moved away ten years ago. Also there are parts of the UK (for example Scotland) that were historically deeply misogynistic, and beneath a very thin veneer, I suspect they remain so, despite their claims to be progressive.

Winesalot · 12/01/2021 09:18

AnyOldPrion

You are right in that I have taken it to the next step of making that comparison. It is however a comparison I have seen often on MN. Not necessarily as much on FWR though to be honest. More on the main boards.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 12/01/2021 09:34

Many, many years ago I had the privilege of spending a little time in Sydney as a student. There are actually four sea baths in that area. One was/is (?) quite expensive to enter but is mixed-sex. One is free and shallow and usually where children play. Then, at each end of the beach are the women's and the (old) men's baths.

These were built many years ago when mixed bathing was still risque. The women's baths were used by women and by nuns from the local convents. I believe that in later years they were/are also used by Jewish and Islamic women. Many lesbian women also used them as did women with children who wanted some privacy. When I was in Sydney it was amazingly cheap to use the women's baths. The men's baths were (I think) more expensive but included a gym and health treatments, a sauna, and so on. When I was there it was a very homophobic time and it was rumoured that they were the preserve of gay men and a 'pick up' place. They were also in disrepair and the open pool (much bigger than the women's) was open to anyone who did not mind clambering across rocks or down a cliff face to access it.

I think this pool has now been done up and access improved (judging by what is written online).

Thing is, though, that when I was there, the men demanded that in the feminist age of 'equal opportunity' that the women's baths be opened to both sexes. I remember the arguments and the letters to the editor and the petitions. The men's area, once so much better than the humble women's baths, was either off-limits because of homophobia or in disrepair, so men demanded what little women had, sometimes aggressively and sometimes sarcastically. The women who ran the baths at the time (they must have been in their 70s) fiercely defended the women's area against all attacks - and I believe that the nuns from the local convents also had their say.

Men used to storm the baths and whine when they were turned away. Sometimes they entered from the sea below. Some men I knew tried to see the baths from vantage points on the cliffs because women bathed topless.

The point here is that local men have always wanted these baths as theirs - they resent women having anything. The local homophobic men, 'the haw haw I've just made sexist joke men' and the outright misogynists are, I suspect, jumping on the trans bandwagon (these men, I suspect would not really believe that transwomen are women and if the baths were opened up to both sexes they would not be safe spaces for TW) to punish women for the small space of beach that they have to themselves. As far as I know, there are no other women-only spaces on the beaches (a local may correct me of course), but plenty of rampant sexism in the form of harassment if women do bathe/sunbathe on the main beaches.

I loved the women's baths and would have loved to have brought them with me when I came home.

Molesmokes · 12/01/2021 09:46

YetAnotherSpartacus sounds like yet another instance of the bigger problem not being actual trans people but opportunistic men seeing that they can take advantage by tailgating trans to sneak or barge in where they are not wanted.

MichelleofzeResistance · 12/01/2021 10:23

The point here is that local men have always wanted these baths as theirs - they resent women having anything. The local homophobic men, 'the haw haw I've just made sexist joke men' and the outright misogynists are, I suspect, jumping on the trans bandwagon (these men, I suspect would not really believe that transwomen are women and if the baths were opened up to both sexes they would not be safe spaces for TW) to punish women for the small space of beach that they have to themselves.

This seems to be absolutely the case in so many situations, the gleeful enjoyment of shoving a justified anti-woman action in the guise of virtue.

Plus the numerous, silly females who are so focused on their feelings of protectiveness for vulnerable males and their own lovely glow of niceness and progressiveness that they haven't noticed their own internalised misogyny and/or don't care about the impact on other females.

If you're fulfilled by caring for vulnerable male people I'm happy for you, please go do it. If you're desperate to help them by getting undressed and naked and having internal exams then that's absolutely your body, your prerogative, that's great. If you're delighted to share mixed sex spaces that is lovely, and I'll happily help campaign for mixed sex spaces in addition because this is probably the right answer all round.

But there is no justification for forcing some females out of any space to give their access, their freedoms, their comfort and safety, their privacy and dignity, as a prize sacrifice to male people. And leaving some females without anything so that all males may have their preferred, best choices from everything.

That's just wrong. It's absolutely, morally, ethically wrong. It's batshit. It's so insensitive, uncaring and sexist I just don't understand how anyone can be arguing for this.

ChakaDakotaRegina · 12/01/2021 10:34

Cattasaurus - yes let’s have men only sessions or pools. If there is demand, why not? But let’s add more not remove what’s there. It’s not about some exclusive club, it’s about people having access to what they need. Some women need female only spaces.

Soubriquet · 12/01/2021 12:11

Isn’t there men’s only ponds in London?

When trans women who didn’t even attempt to pass stormed the women’s ponds, they were waved in.

When women who didn’t try to pass and claimed to be trans men went to the men’s, not only were they turned away, but the POLICE were called!!

I remember there was thread on here about it

Winesalot · 12/01/2021 12:30

Soubriquet

Hampstead Ponds?

BuntingEllacott · 12/01/2021 13:03

That's what Man Friday was all about. God, this is so depressing.

Soubriquet · 12/01/2021 13:07

That’s the one

SkeeterP · 12/01/2021 13:20

They’ve let all the comments through on that press story ... an interesting turn of events!

SkeeterP · 12/01/2021 13:21

And meanwhile looks like McIver swimming baths have been ‘hounded off’ FB altogether.

UppityPuppity · 12/01/2021 13:35

To save you from clicking and just in case you didn’t already hate the Guardian enough - Guardian’s headline/ view:

Sydney women-only ocean pool under fire over transgender policy

Social media users criticise the exclusion of some trans women at McIver’s Ladies Baths, forcing a change of policy wording.

Predictable woman hating...

MichelleofzeResistance · 12/01/2021 13:50

Social media users criticize protecting female only space/times.

Very different spin, isn't it?

Male people must have everything! All the time! Naughty female people wanting any tiny corner of the world to themselves for their own needs!! Burn the witch!

MichelleofzeResistance · 12/01/2021 14:25

And as with toilets, as with women's prisons, as with refuges, as with frigging everything

It is absolutely possible to find other TW inclusive settings (and NB inclusive and whatever other exciting definition inclusive) just like this, and absolutely possible to have TW inclusive sessions alongside . There are plenty of female people ready, willing and positively gagging to be part of those sessions, they're hardly going
to be isolating ones. Plus you'd think wanting to be away from any non compliant females would be a giant plus, since the way they're spoken about you'd think they were diseased with three heads.

There is no logic to the demand to comandeer and have every single female only space unless the need is to stomp them out. And end that provision for females existing. And exclude and punish all females who can't or won't do what they're ordered to do by those who have no idea what life is like for them and don't care either.

This isn't inclusion, it's obliteration.

NotYourCisterinAus · 13/01/2021 04:12

Sydney University "Women's" Collective wants to go and protest at the baths... and are getting massive pushback on the Facebook page:

www.facebook.com/usydwoco/posts/3469020356509179?tn=K-R

Grin
SheldonesqueIsUnwell · 13/01/2021 04:32

This isn't inclusion, it's obliteration

Each and every time. It is nothing to do with inclusivity. At all.

It is simply rage at women having something or somewhere for themselves that they know fine they shouldn’t have access to.

Decent men - however they wish to identify or present - would not insist on this.

SkeeterP · 13/01/2021 06:50

@NotYourCisterinAus

Sydney University "Women's" Collective wants to go and protest at the baths... and are getting massive pushback on the Facebook page:

www.facebook.com/usydwoco/posts/3469020356509179?tn=K-R

Grin

Well that has cheered me up this morning .. women on FB have mobilised and it is a joy. I hope whoever wrote that post starts to get the message now.
FunnyInjury · 13/01/2021 07:00

Cat they had mens sessions in our gym pool. Arrived with a fanfare after complaints about women only sessions.
I noticed about a year later that the mens session wasnt listed anymore (it had previously been my preferred time to go) and asked why it wasnt on the timetable. Manager said they had no-one in at all after the first 2/3 weeks for men only swimming 🤷‍♀️

peak2021 · 13/01/2021 07:08

@SheldonesqueIsUnwell put better than I could have done. Agree 100%.

Winesalot · 13/01/2021 07:11

@NotYourCisterinAus

Sydney University "Women's" Collective wants to go and protest at the baths... and are getting massive pushback on the Facebook page:

www.facebook.com/usydwoco/posts/3469020356509179?tn=K-R

Grin

That was heartening to see the push back. Unfortunately, I did not expect better from Sydney Uni students.

And seriously, whatever could go wrong with asking people for protest images of themselves in their baths....

Malahaha · 13/01/2021 11:38

The Spectator Australia:

spectator.com.au/2021/01/no-penises-in-the-pool-please/?fbclid=IwAR2gIksnlRibh_8UmVXXDnCUPcq6eOhRbRVPmF_2dLEOpwQshlowyZWesZQ

So there you have it.

If you identify as a member of the opposite sex; and would like to swim as a member of the opposite sex among members of the opposite sex who have been trying to avoid members of the opposite sex for the past hundred years, well now you can.

And barely a ripple of protest.

NotBadConsidering · 13/01/2021 12:46

The comments on that Facebook post are amazing. And some brilliant pictures too. The Milhouse one from the Simpsons is perfect!

NotYourCisterinAus · 15/01/2021 01:17

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