Mail on Sunday article showing testimony from Keira's case

[DialSquare]

More sunlight

The testimony that led High Court judge to ban child puberty blockers
mol.im/a/9130157

Excellent. Thanks for sharing. That is two articles about it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4130999-Autistic-girls-seeking-answers-are-seizing-on-sex-change-Times-Article

Thanks Winesalot. That's good. Covers so many readers.
I think the Mail headline is going to catch quite a few people who may not be aware of what's going on.

And some interesting perspectives that the Times didn’t fit in. Particularly chilling that teenaged girls are expected to choose the fathers for their embryos. What world do we live in that not only are these children and teenagers put their own lives at incredible risk, but also they make decisions that directly effect their future children by choosing the donors for their sperm.

Yes Dial. It is good that the mail has published this. Different audiences.

I wonder how many more outlets will publish.....

There was quite alot of different detail compared to the Times article.

Where were the clinics that levine was referring to where they get young girls to choose the sperm donor? In the USA where he's based, do you think?

"Another complicating issue is the fact that freezing unfertilised eggs has a low rate of success,' he said. 'For this reason, certain practices are now asking minors to choose sperm donors to fertilise the eggs prior to freezing them."
That's unbelievable isn't it wines?

More sunlight.

'Another complicating issue is the fact that freezing unfertilised eggs has a low rate of success,' he said. 'For this reason, certain practices are now asking minors to choose sperm donors to fertilise the eggs prior to freezing them.

What the fuck? Is that here or in America? (being as it's the American Prof's statement.) Not that it makes it any less horrific.

I'm so fucking angry that people are getting away with doing this to kids It just gets worse and worse the more that comes to light.

Presumably US winterfire as you say but what happens there possible here.

@Winesalot

And some interesting perspectives that the Times didn’t fit in. Particularly chilling that teenaged girls are expected to choose the fathers for their embryos. What world do we live in that not only are these children and teenagers put their own lives at incredible risk, but also they make decisions that directly effect their future children by choosing the donors for their sperm.

This is insane. Children being asked to choose the father of their future babies?

It's horrific.

Nice, simple headline and bullet points for people who only bother to skim read,

'A live experiment on children': The physicians' testimony that led a High Court judge to ban NHS’s Tavistock clinic from giving puberty blocking drugs to youngsters as young as 10 who say they want to change sex

“In their statements, Prof Gillberg and other leading medical experts revealed:

• Puberty-halting drugs can harm a patient's brain and bone development;

• Clinics are urging gender-changing teen girls to choose sperm donors to fertilise eggs before freezing them;

• Medics are failing to warn about the infertility risks posed by puberty blockers;

• Children who regret treatment find themselves 'locked' into new bodies;

• Internet sites persuade autistic children they are transgender when they simply have 'identity issues'.”

”certain practices are now asking minors to choose sperm donors to fertilise the eggs prior to freezing them.”

So . . . girls under the age of consent are being recommended:

• to undergo a medical procedure to extract eggs or ovarian tissue from their undeveloped bodies (which can be fatal)

• and select an adult male sperm donor to fertilise those eggs.

This nightmare scenario is allowed in the UK by the HFEA

Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority

We’re a Government regulator responsible for making sure fertility clinics and research centres comply with the law. This website provides free, clear and impartial information on UK fertility clinics, IVF and other types of fertility treatment, and donation.

www.hfea.gov.uk/

I haven’t started hormone therapy or puberty suppressing medication yet – what are my options for preserving my fertility?

If you’ve already gone through puberty you may be able to freeze your eggs or sperm and store them until you’re ready to use them in treatment.

Egg freezing involves taking fertility drugs to stimulate your ovaries and then collecting the eggs by a surgical procedure whilst you’re sedated. It is mostly very safe, although there is a risk of ovarian hyperstimulation, which can need hospital treatment and in very rare cases can be fatal.

Sperm freezing involves masturbating or undergoing vibratory stimulation to produce a sperm sample, which is then frozen and stored. If you do not feel comfortable producing sperm in this way, it is possible to extract the sperm in different ways (such as through surgical sperm extraction) although these involve more invasive surgical procedures.

Before puberty

If you haven’t gone through puberty yet and you’re keen to start hormone therapy or puberty suppressing medication as soon as possible, it may be possible for you to store your ovarian tissue or testicular tissue, which can be collected via a surgical procedure. These treatments are It is unclear at present how stored testicular tissue would be used to restore fertility: this has not been achieved yet. It’s also worth bearing in mind that very few clinics offer these treatments so you may need to travel some way on multiple occasions to have this procedure.

Continued at:

www.hfea.gov.uk/treatments/fertility-preservation/information-for-trans-and-non-binary-people-seeking-fertility-treatment

Pushing children to make decisions on sperm donors for their future children is hideous. I can’t imagine that even if the girl is having to do this due to a cancer or other diagnosis that this would be an ‘easy’ decision.

Let’s not also take into account the very real and hard decisions about what to do with said embryos if they are not wanted or cannot be used.

Or the high risk factor of teenagers going through hyper stimulation of their ovaries.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate

Presumably US winterfire as you say but what happens there possible here.

I would have thought any evidence presented would have had to be relevant to UK practice.

Oh god, "before puberty". No matter how much I think I know about this subject and think I'm getting immune, it still has the power to shock me so much to the point of nausea. How could they do this?

I've read so much over the past three years that not a lot shocks me anymore about all the craziness in transgenderism. There's a heck of a lot that angers me, but there's not much left to truly shock or surprise me. And yet... Oh... My... God. WTAF....

Prof Levine's submission said some fertility treatments on offer were 'highly experimental' while teenagers often did not want to go through invasive procedures such as egg freezing.

'Another complicating issue is the fact that freezing unfertilised eggs has a low rate of success,' he said. 'For this reason, certain practices are now asking minors to choose sperm donors to fertilise the eggs prior to freezing them.

'The ethics of asking a child to choose the genetic father for their future child (and creating and storing embryos) pose a host of highly problematic ethical issues.'

@McDuffy, yes, I feel nauseated too.

There's an underlying sadism involved in 'medicalising' this deranged ideology. From theory to practice: the slice and dice years.

@Winesalot

Pushing children to make decisions on sperm donors for their future children is hideous. I can’t imagine that even if the girl is having to do this due to a cancer or other diagnosis that this would be an ‘easy’ decision.

Let’s not also take into account the very real and hard decisions about what to do with said embryos if they are not wanted or cannot be used.

Or the high risk factor of teenagers going through hyper stimulation of their ovaries.

Let’s not also take into account the very real and hard decisions about what to do with said embryos if they are not wanted or cannot be used.

Or they are later wanted - who’s going to carry and birth the child?

And for any resultant child who will be listed on their birth certificate as the parents?

This whole ideology just seems so knee jerk solutions to issues as they arise with no future proofing or thought for who’s impacted down the line.

They keep kicking the can, but someone has to end up paying the price.

I have found that the minimising of the risks to female teens and children are constantly downplayed though. Particularly by the male transitioners.

I was horrified to find out how much the risk of dementia increases with hysterectomies and then each ovary is subsequently removed. And then the increase of risk as the age of the patient decreases.

And I have seen a male poster intimate that it is fine that the risk of cardio vascular disease has gone up with testosterone. The transman now has the same risk as the category they wish to belong to. That’s a-ok.

These males are advocating for females to go through this process believing that their transman ‘friends’ are perfectly fine. Yeah... now. Check in on them in a decade or two and report back.

I will be very keen to see Gillberg’s study.

And of course those stored embryos will need someone to gestate them. A biological woman obviously. This goes hand in hand with the push for surrogacy.
As anyone familiar with my posts knows, I am steadfastly against surrogacy in all circumstances. But even I can see that in ten to fifteen years, when the girls who have had their future fertility stolen in this way see their peers pairing off and having children and families, they will mourn their loss and want that experience of motherhood. Why wouldn't they? If I was going to weaken my stance in anyway it would be from sympathy for these poor young women who have had their futures stolen from them.

One of the linked articles below the Keira Bell article is just as shocking:

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-9125607/Trans-girl-desperate-start-hormone-treatment-look-like-teenage-girls.html

I really do think some parents have just abdicated their responsibility when it comes to this ideology.

Karen Davies has done a good and very shocking video on the “preparations” needed for phalloplasty and their long-term consequences for the health of female bodies and minds:

TO HELL WITH HEALTH! STAND UP TO PEE, GIRLIE! I MEAN, MAN!

Well done to the MoS for going to court to get permission for this testimony to be published.

This is child abuse isn’t it?

Take away the rainbows and the glitter and look at what has happened, unchecked and without safeguards, because trans.

Except it’s not because trans. It’s children struggling with puberty who have been shoved down a pathway instead of being given appropriate support.

From the article EdgeOfACoin linked:

"My adult son refuses to call Zoey by her new name and can't get over his "brother wanting this", consistently blaming me as if I'm forcing this on "him"."

I make no comment.

That "Before puberty" section by the HFEA is horrific. Just the fact that it exists, and is supposedly addressing prepubescent children, as if they could be expected to understand it. I don't just mean "Gillick competency" level understanding, I mean literally parse and understand phrases like "stored testicular tissue". We are talking about primary school children.

I have noticed a general trend for children's health information to be addressed to the child (e.g. the Great Ormond Street website) and I can imagine the well-intentioned thinking behind that, but surely there has to be some recognition that children cannot be expected to take responsibility for their own medical care even when it's something quite straightforward, let alone these insane and abusive "treatments". I don't want to derail, but do posters who know more than I do about this area think there is a general trend to "empowering" children in their healthcare which might inadvertently be fuelling this stuff?