Mail on Sunday article showing testimony from Keira's case

[DialSquare]

More sunlight

The testimony that led High Court judge to ban child puberty blockers
mol.im/a/9130157

I still don’t understand how there can be any informed consent where the information required for the ‘informed’ doesn’t exist.

It's bugging me too. The ''treatment'' doesn't magically stop being experimental with no full understanding of future side effects just because the parent says 'yes'. Why should they be allowed to inflict infertility and loss of sexual function on their children for no good medical reason? Really troubling.

This is the thing isn't it. The Court of Protection will ensure that the child safeguarding is paramount. This 'potential' use of family court to bypass the court of protection means that a child without the capability will be given drugs without the scrutiny of the rigorous court of protection because the parent says so. When you read the release of the court papers by the Mail, it is difficult to see how any organisation would think it ok to pursue this .

I don't think NICE have been nobbled. I actually think this hasn't been properly thought through and NICE would have a role to play wouldn't they? This is why I wonder if QC Jolyon hasn't had his fingers in this particular pie. It seems to be a stupid action if it goes ahead

How is it possible that we, as individuals, have to fund this legal action whilst our opponents have the bottomless pit of the state behind them?
Who makes these funding decisions? Can't the NHS override individual trusts or do they have total discretion? Surely the Health Secretary can intervene if they don't want to underwrite this legal action? Seems insane.

Letter writing is my way forward

This is why I wonder if QC Jolyon hasn't had his fingers in this particular pie. It seems to be a stupid action if it goes ahead

You've seen this thread? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4114605-Jolyon-Maugham-GLP-and-scary-stuff-re-parental-consent?pg=1

Well worth a read....

@highame

Letter writing is my way forward

Well done - me too :-)) I’ve done one this morning and have just worked out my second. I do feel better when I’m doing something about this.

Better do some work now though and check the kids are doing their schoolwork:-)

me too, need to feel as though I'm making some sort of noise

The other thing I don’t understand is that presumably NICE has to have approved the use and financing of these drugs for this purpose.

This is the NICE page for the drug used in the UK as a puberty blocker.

bnfc.nice.org.uk/drug/triptorelin.html#indicationsAndDoses

For children, NICE have only approved it for the treatment of precocious puberty.

@OldCrone

The other thing I don’t understand is that presumably NICE has to have approved the use and financing of these drugs for this purpose.

This is the NICE page for the drug used in the UK as a puberty blocker.

bnfc.nice.org.uk/drug/triptorelin.html#indicationsAndDoses

For children, NICE have only approved it for the treatment of precocious puberty.

Thank you, I did search on the site but couldn’t find that.

Am I right in thinking that there should be some sort of approval process from NICE to use the drugs for a different purpose?

I’m sure I’ve read articles about people not getting certain new cancer treatments in time because NICE hasn’t approved the cost/benefit yet. Am I missing something?

Have GIDS gone off piste here?

The ''treatment'' doesn't magically stop being experimental with no full understanding of future side effects just because the parent says 'yes'. Why should they be allowed to inflict infertility and loss of sexual function on their children for no good medical reason?

And when the Tavistock whistleblowers said that they believed homophobia and (in one case) paedophilia were behind the motivation of some parents who 'supported' their children who wanted to transition...

Times article - It feels like conversion therapy for gay children, say clinicians

When you sit and really think about all this, how can anyone not be horrified? I'm so angry that there are still too many people that don't or won't see it.

"It is unclear at present how stored testicular tissue would be used to restore fertility: this has not been achieved yet."

We'll, quite. This definition of 'experimental' would also encompass freezing your head in liquid nitrogen in the hope that future technology allows you to thaw it out and live forever.

precocious puberty is only a short term need, so one would think serious questions need to be asked.

Off subject sort of but I read yesterday that California State now required medical Insurers to insure for trans procedures. Big train coming down that track

Forgot to add. It appears the medical procedures are no longer viewed as cosmetic and are now seen as correcting abnormalities. What kind of crazy adult do you have to be to think that's ok

www.insurance.ca.gov/0400-news/0100-press-releases/2020/release140-2020.cfm

These are pretty heavy duty drugs. Common side effects reported for one of the three brands of pbs listed:

Asthma; body hair change; breast abnormalities; depression; headache; hypersensitivity; mood altered; ovarian cyst; paraesthesia; skin reactions; vaginal haemorrhage; visual impairment; weight change; withdrawal bleed

Quite frequently when this gets raised elsewhere, concerns are dismissed and it is pointed out that all commonly used drugs have potential side effects that sound serious and we would never take any medication if we constantly panicked about side effects.

To check this I had a look at a box of paracetamol. This is one of the household medicines that requires extra caution as the consequences of even a small overdose can be fatal so I thought that would be a good comparison.

The leaflet points out that side effects are rare and asks that all possible side effects are reported straightaway and the patient stops taking it immediately. There is the possibility of allergic reaction, irritated skin, blood changes resulting in unexpected bruises or bleeding, breathing problems.

The side effects on pbs are listed as ‘very common’ and it reads like they are to be endured rather than an indication to stop treatment.

Logic would suggest that the condition they are intended to prevent is far worse than even the side effects and there is no possible alternative but we know that that is not true.

We know that doing nothing is a very good alternative for approx 80% of children so as we’ve said before the diagnosis becomes absolutely key. However we know that diagnosis is not being treated with any the required seriousness with GIDS especially with the private prescribers despite their claims.

The side effects on pbs are listed as ‘very common’ and it reads like they are to be endured rather than an indication to stop treatment.

For triptorelin, which seems to be the drug commonly used to block puberty in gender dysphoric teens in the UK, the only side effects listed as 'common or very common' are depression and 'mood altered'.

bnfc.nice.org.uk/drug/triptorelin.html#sideEffects

Since the main symptom of gender dysphoria is mental distress (as there are no physical symptoms), it seems unwise to treat this with a drug which has depression as a common side effect.

Now in the New Yorker.

I am not sure non subscribers can read. Pretty good given it is an American news source, quoting both the Observer and the Economist, as well as mentioning Abigail Shrier and JKR, and suggesting that gender may be more fluid than some people recognise and that regret might always be possible, at any age.

www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/we-need-to-change-the-terms-of-the-debate-on-trans-kids?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_011321&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_medium=email&bxid=5bea0b6e2ddf9c72dc8cfc7e&cndid=49377309&hasha=8d5dbaaa57a507e2bd96366c07a28287&hashb=b315dcfb6225afc4d22eafc5ad9c5adb34a82917&hashc=a539211f009bddf78bac720dc44d522d67422f96753993dccfbd07630bf8a597&esrc=AUTO_OTHER&utm_term=TNY_Daily