Woman's Hour: What happened this morning?

[NonCisWoman]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9117995/Actress-refuses-appear-Womans-Hour-accusing-host-Emma-Barnett-degrading-comments.html

An actress refused to appear on Woman's Hour this morning after accusing host Emma Barnett of making 'degrading and vile' comments about her.

Kelechi Okafor was set to talk on the BBC Radio 4 show to discuss the #MeToo movement with new presenter Emma Barnett.

But as the programme was live on air, the Nigerian-British actress revealed she had come off the show, writing: 'Because what I've just had to witness is absolutely degrading and vile.'

Posting a video to Instagram, she said: 'I won't be going on Woman's Hour now. The host didn't realise her mic was on as she was talking s* about me to the producers.'

Shedbuilder - I have earlier on said that up until I saw the "explanation" from EB I was happy not to participate. But it was her description that made me view it as total lack of preparation, being caught out by mic being on, and going on the attack to cover up her mistakes and that of the WH team

And of course trying to defend her own reputation as she is very much needs to be seen to be in touch with the sensitivities over anti semitism. She did a programme on this on her Radio 5 programme and is somehow connected and has given speeches to Jewish Women's Aid.

It may be this reputation she is most concerned about preserving than what happens on Women's Hour.

Totally shoddy programme making.

Totally hopeless example of BBC presenters being all about their egos and their status.

Pathelically inadequate. The BBC seems to be sliding down into being just another lets get a click bait moment.

@nauticant

The incidents behind this thread are an example of what's wrong with the way identity politics have evolved. At worst, like here, it ends up being a game of Top Trumps with the person with the most "oppressed identity" seeking a declaration that they're the winner. The facts are not especially important.

It really has spiralled into playground mid slinging

Stumbledin,

*Sorry - but the point is EB was not prepared nor did the WH team raise it.

It seems that by some accident at the last minute EB was made aware of alleged anti-semitic remarks and decided there and then to ask a question for no other reason that she was heard unprofessionally overheard making personal comments.*

The presenters don't do their own research: the programme has research staff and producers who are supposed to do most of that (though many presenters will have an interest and do background work, admittedly). We only have KO's assertion that EB made personal remarks — and of course just quoting some of the things she's apparently said and having an opinion about them would count as personal remarks.

I imagine KO's sitting at home reading this thread and laughing at the hyperbole she's managed to stir up without offering any evidence or even telling us what was said. If everything was recorded we may yet get to hear it all for ourselves.

EVAW have backed up KO's claims that Emma's comments were personal. They also dropped out of speaking, I believe.

I hope they release the Zoom chat so that everything can be cleared up.

I agree that KO is Mis-using the term "violence" though.

I'm really shocked by those comments in the Jewish Chronicle report. Really shocked. I cannot understand the cognitive dissonance involved in thinking that it's ok to associate one entire race with a particular undesirable type of behaviour WHILE AT THE SAME TIME calling out other people for doing the exact same thing in relation to another race???

she is very much needs to be seen to be in touch with the sensitivities over anti semitism

stumbledin, are you aware that Emma is from a Jewish background? And perhaps therefore actually is in touch with the sensitivities over racism?

Re: the relevance of Weinstein being Jewish to #MeToo, this is something KO has previously spoken about as part of a rant about Jewish men making money off black artists - apparently Lupita Nyong'o's complaints against Weinstein were not taken seriously as he belongs to a "powerful sector of the community", which is where she went on to reference Shylock.

antisemitism.org/actress-and-fitness-studio-owner-kelechi-okafor-claims-reggie-yates-comments-about-jews-were-the-truth/

Apologies if this had been posted already, I hadn't seen it.

So, it sounds like the discussion KO stumbled in on was very relevant. Also, of course, sounds like an unfortunate cock-up.

The incidents behind this thread are an example of what's wrong with the way identity politics have evolved. At worst, like here, it ends up being a game of Top Trumps with the person with the most "oppressed identity" seeking a declaration that they're the winner. The facts are not especially important

spot on.

re. Lionel Shriver - she writes some brilliant prose and I would put a couple of her novels in my top 100 of all time but I can't help feeling she's a bit of an arse underneath it all.

Zero tolerance for anti-Semitism in the Me Too movement. Deliberate invocation of a Shylock trope is shocking.

Nobody in this story covers themself in glory. One person in this story has, so far as I know, a history of anti-Semitic comment.

I know a couple of people have mentioned this already but those posts seem to have been overlooked in later comments, so . . .

From the court reports mentioned in the various articles linked above:

“Police found emails between Mr Barnett and his daughter Emma, talking about his `whores'.

We don’t know from that who used the term “whores” or what EB said. The full facts might condemn her but I find it hard to imagine that she was having a cosy chat with her dad, congratulating him on his pimping and exploitation of vulnerable women.

I also agree with PP that neither party to the WH fiasco comes out well from this and that both are making things worse by competing for points in the Oppression Olympics.

Even if the “hot mic” incident had not occurred, the WH Producers were surely courting controversy in their choice of guests (plural)? Either that or they were asleep on the job. They need carpeting. Not all publicity is good publicity.

But she can bring up white privilege
“The fact is that if you feel it’s no longer needed for your white middle class sensibilities marginalised voices still need it."
So she thinks comments about Jewish people and white middle class is ok?? I HATE the whole white privileged attitude I understand it and believe me I support BLM it’s horrendous what they have been through and racism shouldn’t even be a thing I’m this day and age but surely if you are against racism you are against all racism or am I miss understanding?? Please enlighten me if I am

I can’t understand why on earth WH would give airtime to someone who’s made such openly anti Semitic comments. It’s shocking.

It’s also shocking, though, if the WH researchers are so shoddy that they genuinely weren’t aware of the anti semitism until 2 minutes before the show. And that they left on a mic.

So - possibly anti-Semitic; definitely inept. BBC on top form. Why does anyone listen to WH again?

The producers of Women's Hour don't even know what a "woman" is, so I don't think research or critical thinking are their strong points...

I've been trying to work out what happened with this all day.

My opinion is: EB's email exchanges from years ago not relevant. I'm a cynical thing these days and when you notice someone being damned for email exchanges on the basis of one unattributed word, the lack of context being provided should tell you something. It usually means that a fuller quote would weaken the case for the prosecution.

KO's accusations are heavy on the hyperbole about how she felt, and very light on quotes. Not even paraphrasing of what she might have overheard.

After reading that fascinating account in the JC linked upthread (thank you), I'm inclined to take anything KO says with a full canister of salt, never mind a pinch.

I'm imagining EB didn't leave on a mic, as such. If it was all on zoom I'm guessing that someone on the production side let guests into a meeting that had previously only included the WH team, and the guests heard the tail end of the pre-programme conversation. Which is a horrible position for anyone to be put in.

In a way I hope it was 'just' incompetence and lack of professionalism. It would be arguably worse if it had been done deliberately to sabotage EB in her first week.

So she thinks comments about Jewish people and white middle class is ok?? I HATE the whole white privileged attitude I understand it and believe me I support BLM it’s horrendous what they have been through and racism shouldn’t even be a thing I’m this day and age but surely if you are against racism you are against all racism or am I miss understanding?? Please enlighten me if I am

I suppose it will all depend on what definition of racism you are using.
The newish definition that we are all supposed to unquestionably go along with requires prejudice combined with social and institutional power which means that whilst KO can be prejudiced she cannot be racist.

JeepGreen - I would have thought from my previous post that of course I was aware of her heritage. The point I was making is that because of what appears to be her political postion she had to make sure she was seen to be challenging the alleged anti semitism.

But it just comes back to the situation that not only her as a commentator, but the WH were really sloppy in inviting someone because rightly or wrongly, the actual discussion on #MeToo would be bound to be hijacked by the other isssue(s).

So if EB hadn't made the challenge she did after at the very last minute finding out about the allegations, she would have been only too aware that she would have been hauled over the internet coals for not challenging the speaker chosen by her programme about the allegations of anti semitism.

Just so casually awful. Just makes you feel the new WH actually doesn't think it is a serious programme or that its audience deserves the respect of proper research.

Irrespective of the views expressed by those who didn't speak and those who did, the BBC looks ridiculous.

By the way they have now done their own report on this which dare I suggest is a tiny bit slanted.

As usual the media participation becomes the story, not the issues itself.

Total shambles.

Are there any non-white women contributing to this discussion on this thread? What a shame. It would be great to hear a diversity of voices on this discussion.

Kelechi Okafor claims they were using expletives about her. I'm very sceptical about that.

EVAW have backed up KO's story, and they're very reputable.

I suspect that EB chose to tenuously discover a link between KO's defence of RY and HW's heritage to explain why she had been discussing anti-Semitic comments. The rationale is a very weak one - a way of covering up being caught out on air. Maybe a producer had filled her in on KO's history of commentary (RY reference by her is totally unacceptable racism, if true), and EB was reacting in shock and indignation - not realising guests could hear. (Being let into Zoom meeting rooms early is a common and embarrassing problem with having to be remote).
If good journalism is sticking closely to one thread and topic, then I think Jewish heritage would not have featured in the discussion of the Me-Too movement as obviously the crimes by HW were due to universal human failings personal callousness and cruelty.

The serious failing is on the part of the producers for nor having researched thoroughly and well in advance. I suppose, re controversial comments by guests, that you can give people a chance to put mistakes behind them, if people have made unacceptable racist comments in their past, then apologised and tried to explain and maybe throw light on why they and others have fallen into a trap, what they'd been reading and mis-processing, owning their own ignorance about certain things, like listening to invective, and absorbing views about rich people having too much power, and not being aware of the equal status of every sort of racism. If they own the mistake, then they can go on to be valid commentators on other subjects. The producers should know their angle on the matter and decide whether the history should be referenced on the programme, but it seems they casually mentioned it at the last minute. This suggests they only found out about the RY defence late in the day.

@Newyearnewrule

Are there any non-white women contributing to this discussion on this thread? What a shame. It would be great to hear a diversity of voices on this discussion.

Cringeworthy comment.

There is 'a diversity of voices' all over MN. No one is obliged to present a photograph or ID before posting. Really unreasonable to expect non-white posters to sound recognisably different in some way.

So a EB (a Jewish woman) was going to challenge KO on her anti Semitic comments but made the rookie mistake of leaving her mic on and then tried to save face by 'sticking to her guns', at which point KO flounced to avoid the heat?