School referring to all pupils as 'they'

[newlife79]

Was just looking at my child's school Twitter feed and noticed that they are referring to all pupils as 'they' rather than he/she. For example, "Katie from Year 7 did well in a Drama competition, they said they really enjoyed taking part".

Is this a new thing? I suppose the person who runs the Twitter feed doesn't want to misgender the child. It seems a bit extreme.

@FelicityMingington

Having said that, I don't like "they" just because it sounds clunky, as it already has a different (plural) meaning

For different reasons the English language (mostly) lost its singular second-person pronouns a long time ago (thee/thou) and we manage fine with the plural "you". I'm pretty sure we'd adapt fine to moving away from singular third-person pronouns towards the plural.

I wonder if that is what happened. The 'th' used to be handwritten with a Y. This letter Y (pronounced th) was known as thorn. So 'Ye old coffee shop' was pronounced as 'the old coffee shop'.

I wonder if this went backwards too. Thee, where thorn 'th' would have been written with a Y went to Ye with thorn being pronounced as a modern day y. And thou went to you. Think some other Germanic languages may still have a version of 'thorn'. The Norman conquest possibly had some effect on English development.

Just on another point, vast majority of Irish people in everyday conservation use 'you' as second personal singular and employ 'ye' for second personal plural. To distinguish.

Sorry, with that all as clear as mud, I simply meant that the pronunciation of thorn (written Y, but pronounced as th) changed in English to a modern Y pronunciation.

So thou went to you and thee went to ye(e). It was the letter thorn represented by Y which was lost to English, in writing and in pronunciation.

An article from 2017
Why Brighton university uses only gender neutral pronouns

www.independent.co.uk/student/news/sussex-university-gender-neutral-pronouns-transgender-lgbt-rights-brighton-sexuality-politics-a7505671.html

So they make everyone publicly perform their pronouns at the Students' meetings. It is not exactly sensitive. Are you publicly denounced if you don't want to do it, I wonder?

It reminds me of Mao's China.

Wait a moment! So they want to force people to come out, to publicly declare a protected characteristic? Or they want to force people who don't publicly declare their referred pronouns to be assumed to be non binary/neutral?

OMG! The weight of that...

and to say "leur sac" would change the meaning , which is what "they" does

I'm pretty sure we'd adapt fine to moving away from singular third-person pronouns towards the plural

Yes, if we wanted to. But what if we don't?

Ze will make we???

The consent forms for the left and vaccines we got sent this week all had Gender written on they- I crossed that out and wrote sex.

As a fully paid up member of the Grammar Police, I find it difficult to accept the use of "they" as a singular pronoun when we already have a singular pronoun ("it"). Now, to be fair, I agree that this is unacceptable in many instances when referring to a person. The best solution in most cases is either to repeat the person's name, or to alter the sentence construction, as mentioned in an earlier post.

Now, to be fair, I agree that this is unacceptable in many instances when referring to a person

Why though?

So i get that its rude, my mother told me so

But is it only rude cos we decided it was rude?

But is it only rude cos we decided it was rude?

Well, arguably, anything that's rude is only rude because we decided it was rude! But I think it's pretty understandable that in a language where 'he' and 'she' refer to a person, but 'it' refers to a thing, people aren't going to be very keen on being referred to as a thing.

I thought that 'it' refers to something inanimate. I only associate it's use with derision when referring to a living breathing creature. Or clumsily when you don't know the sex of a baby or another animal.

Similar when you refer to someone as a 'thing'. 'Yoke' is used in Ireland in the same way.

www.irishtimes.com/culture/words-we-use-yoke-1.1573310

May be over invested with my pets companion animals. They don't know when they are referred to as it so can't take offence. Baby's parents will put you right tout suite, I imagine.

Actually it's very practical with the trend for unusual, gender neutral and opposite gender names - my dd has a friend called Stevie which was definitely a boys name by she is (and always has been) female

My dc school is doing this (although not consistently) and it’s reportedly being driven by some extremely vocal ‘non-binary’ teenagers who threaten to get teachers sacked every time a student is in the teenagers’ eyes ‘misgendered’.

I really don't have an issue using they in the singular, I've always done so when I've been unsure of the sex of someone or just felt it wasn't relevant. Not sure whether I was taught this at school or by my mum (whose native language only has gender neutral pronouns so maybe she wanted an English version) but it seems stupid in this usage.

But I think it's pretty understandable that in a language where 'he' and 'she' refer to a person, but 'it' refers to a thing, people aren't going to be very keen on being referred to as a thing

Absolutely

But some people don’t want he or she any more

They want they, and if they want they could ‘it’ not do for the singular still

And ive had massive arguments with teacher (potential) son in law when he said ‘they’ can’t be singular

natsku has given an example if when it’s appropriate

they want they, and if they want they could ‘it’ not do for the singular still

Having said that im never going to be able to use it even if it did become polite usage

I struggle to stop calling people what they are introduced to me as, so id never cope with being ‘rude’

I think the grammar purists ought to study a bit of history to realise that language evolves over time. We manage just fine with "you" being both plural and singular (and not gendered). Is there any reason we couldn't manage just as fine with "they" also being both plural and singular?

Thou turned to you over about four hundred years; I find that I resent being bullied into a language change over as many decades, if that long. There is evolution, and then there is amputation.

@WhichOneOfUsIsCaving2

Language changes of course, but fortunately rarely by directive.

Thank fuck.

Well quite. Trying to force changes in language based on your current ideology is the behaviour of the oppressor, not the oppressed.

The only "force" or "directive" I see here is all the people telling the school they shouldn't use the pronoun they consider appropriate.

@lazylinguist

I'm pretty sure we'd adapt fine to moving away from singular third-person pronouns towards the plural

Yes, if we wanted to. But what if we don't?

Then don't. Has the school mentioned in the OP of this thread sent you a letter saying you have to?

Forgive my judgment, but is this really an issue at all?