Frequency of sexual assault

[janetmendoza]

Are there any women at all who have never been sexually assaulted? Even in the uk at this point in history I think it is absolutely rife. I have only just started thinking about this and I would have said previously that I had never been assaulted, but thinking about it now I definitely have.
I think I have got off lightly but I can still list
Aged about 8 a man on a beach said he would teach me to swim and put his hand inside my bather as he was pretending to hold me in the water. My dad stormed over and hit him. I had no idea what was going on.
Aged about 14 a man with learning disabilities put his hand up my dress. My Mum told him off.
Aged about 20 a man managed to undo my bra on a bus in Italy and tried a bit of a grope. I got off the bus
Aged about 22 a man knocked me to the ground in a dark street and I think he intended to rape me. Luckily passers by arrived and he fled. I didn't report it.
So that's just me with my very sheltered life. I am interested to see if there is anyone at all who can say it has never happened to them. Is it something that can ever be eliminated?

Zeitgeist I'm sorry x

thank you : )

never told anyone about it before now.

Are you 16 now? Guessing you're from USA.

Loads of women/ girls never tell anyone or minimise it to make it ok.

Are you safe and looked after now :)

almost 16, and i'm from uk.

yeah, i don't talk to the boy anymore and he doesn't live close so i don't have to worry about bumping into him on the street lol.

thank you for being so nice : )

Hey it's literally zero problem.

Why are you on mn though? Although tbf the options elsewhere are a bit rubbish.

Are you living at home? I had similar at a bit older. Never reported obviously. 30 years ago things don't change :)

You're safe and comfy yeah? X

I'm surprised how you could hold the view that you hadn't been sexually assaulted after somebody knocked you down and tried to rape you, OP.

@BrassicaRabbit

But I don't think my experiences were especially unusual. I wish there was a record of it all somewhere that women could point to, to say look, this is what we deal with. We're not even even asking for justice at this point. Just scrabbling around trying to piece together our tattered rights.

This is a brilliant idea.
An anonymous place for women to log ALL incidents of their sexual assaults. Eyes really might then pop as to what we have to deal with.

They either don't listen or don't care. Is the bottom line.

I think it's likely because they experience significantly more violence themselves, so don't really give much thought to women's problems - e.g. aren't shocked by things like groping because they have to worry about getting glassed/headbutted/stabbed etc.

I often reflect that improving things for men could have a knock on effect for women but the reverse is maybe not as likely. Men as a group are the issue but the non-violent majority are also victims like women in many cases.

Not meaning to use whataboutery. More trying to show it's a widespread societal issue, not just a women's rights issue.

zeitgeista, that's heartbreaking, I'm really sorry.

If you feel like you want to talk about it,

rapecrisis.org.uk/

have a helpline and a live chat function. Hope you have plenty of support around you.

aren't shocked by things like groping because they have to worry about getting glassed/headbutted/stabbed etc

These are very different things, though, aren't they? I think men are utterly shocked by groping/rape/sexual assault if they are the victims. Although of course violence is more likely for them and rape/sa far less likely. So it does seem very much about the sex of the victim, and the perpetrator.

Apologies for talking in such generalised terms, it's hard because I know so many people are directly affected by these issues.

Violence is hideous in all forms, whoever its directed at. But sexual assault has extra dimensions to it, it seems to me, of intent and consequence.

Many men don't get it because the things we are talking about are often the same behaviours welcomed by consenting partners, especially in the early stages of a relationhsip. That quick touch, eye contact, muttered sentence. All absolutely fine.

But explain them outside a relationship - this bloke stared at me, he brushed against me in a queue, said I was beautiful and smiled - all the low level harrassment is dismissed, he was just trying to be friendly, seeing if you were single...

All the brushing, groping, pinching... well that's just something isn't it? Soemthing like - you were mistaken, it was crowded, the bus juddered.

And then the gross dismissal - you weren't hurt, it was just a bit of fun!

So many women who say they have not experienced sexual harrasssment don't include the little things, the inconsequential stuff, because that's what we have been taught!

My now DH once said something about men using such things to see if a woman was receptive. I asked him if he thought he had ever done any of that with me.. he said maybe. So I reached out to the next youngish man who passed us, tapped his bum, smiled and asked him if he was doing anything that night. The young man looked horrifed and fled, DH was mortified, wanted to go after him and apologise for my behaviour.

I have never had to explain such things to DH again!

@CuriousaboutSamphire That was one brilliant move to show your DH our reality . Sadly, my DH has needed many explanations over the years, but if I'd only used your real-time modeling behavior lesson...

I was braver back then!

I also took exception to a friend in a pub. He was laughing that he had stroked the bum of a 'fit lass' as she walked passed.

So as I went to the loo, in full view of everyone, slowly and deliberately, I ran my hand across his be-jeaned penis... His mates fell about laughing and we did have a more serious conversation about it when sober.

That was the 80s... when the 50s met the 21st century. Before the 21st century decided it wanted the 50s back.

I don't think women sexually assaulting men is the answer to this.

It's not brilliant at all that you touched a random blokes bum.

These days I am fully aware of that. I wouldn't advocate anyone doing it.

Back then? Nah! Women had a much harder fight to be heard and actions spoke louder than words.

In the intervening almost 40 years a lot has changed!

And yet as a woman if you say

“I’ve been raped and sexually assaulted multiple times, by various men, in different circumstances and times” you would be questioned as to what YOU'VE done to cause this!!

BIL was like that! Worse, he couldn't understand why now DH would stay with me once I had proven I was a slag/been spoiled by being raped.

He voiced those thoughts a few times. My being raped affronted him, I brought something dirty into his family. I suspect PoisonousSIL wholly agreed with him.

For almost 40 years BIL has had to put up with his brother being happily married to spoiled goods!

I used to think I hadn’t. As I got older I realised

1. A male neighbour slapping my bum every time I got out of his car when he’d drop us/ pick us up from school is assault. I was around 8-9. I hated it but didn’t twig till years later it was inappropriate
2. My school mates squeezing my breasts when I was first to develop was unpleasant and humiliating. I accepted it as mucking around. I’d be furious if that happened to someone else’s girl now
3. Male friends students pinging bra straps and feeling up to see if had suspenders on. I was not dating them. They were boyfriends of others in our circle and all the girls got same treatment. I suspect worse happens now as that was in hte 1980s before explicit porn culture

Etc etc Lots of things I’d have put down to someone having fun at my expense and embarrassing me. Now I know it was sexual harressment and assault. I’m less tolerant as I get older.

Nothing physical for me. Catcalling etc when I was younger. Oh and I was followed once by a bloke when I was shopping. I kept going into different shops to lose him, and each time I came out, there he was staring at me. But I'm 49 and I've never been raped, groped or physically assaulted in any way.

@NiceGerbil

I don't think women sexually assaulting men is the answer to this.

It's not brilliant at all that you touched a random blokes bum.

It's really not. Men are so vulnerable.

Sorry - no, it's not OK! But couldn't help venturing into false equivalence territory.

Because it isn't the same. At all.

Many men don't get it because the things we are talking about are often the same behaviours welcomed by consenting partners, especially in the early stages of a relationhsip. That quick touch, eye contact, muttered sentence. All absolutely fine.

Sorry but this is bullshit IMHO. 😂

How can you possibly know what men think, and do you really honestly assume them to not understand the difference between their partner and a stranger?

They know full well what they're doing but just don't give two fucks. Could be societal, could be related to higher testosterone lowering empathy, but most likely just because a minority of men are arseholes and know they can get away with it.

I actually haven’t been. I know I’m incredibly sheltered/lucky though. Being in places like this has made it hit home how common this type of experience is for other women though.

I started reading this thread as it popped up in active, looking at the question thinking 'nope not me.' My assumption was rape = sexual assault. Thinking 'I'm so lucky that never happened to me, I don't know anyone who has been raped.' Then I read a few comments further and realised actually yes, I've been groped many times starting as a young child. Yes, I've been sexually assaulted, and so have most women I know. And I've never framed it that way before.

The earliest I remember was when I'd just started high school, so 11, being at a bus stop and suddenly an older boy from the school maybe around 15, just walked right up to me, leaned all his body weight against me and unzipped my coat, while sorting of licking his lips and flicking his tongue at me. I had no idea what to do, looked around for help, other adults including older women just looking on with no reactions. Not bothered. I can't remember what I did or how I got out of the situation.

A few years later, walked down a quiet school corridor and a boy walking the opposite way randomly grabbed hold of my boob. A few weeks later our form tutor had a meeting with all the girls about this random boob grabber, warning us to be careful and not ever be alone on corridors and always report anything. So he/they were doing it to multiple girls, but we were the ones who had to change our behaviour.

Also on a school trip to Paris, in the lift going up the Eiffel Tower a lad in my year grabbed my boob. Just grabbed it, out of nowhere. Made a joke while blatantly doing it in front of our friends. Surrounded by adults, other tourists, they fucking laughed.

Later going out to bars, pubs etc constantly getting felt up, ground on, groped but I thought that was ok, it's just what happened because my body was there for men to touch. Those first incidents and lack of adult protection taught me this was normal and it's how men show approval. I can't believe how conditioned into acceptance I was. I remember my mum saying for years she got the same bus to work and a bloke sat behind her touching her hair and sniffing it, she doesn't know why she didn't do anything except 'there was nothing to be done.'

Ohhh, way too many to count. Off the top of my head: inappropriate behaviour and touching (hair/back of neck/shoulders) by a male teacher when I was about 10; ‘grabbed by the pussy’ by a slightly older schoolboy when I was about 12; groped by a complete stranger on a train aged about 19 or 20; groped in bars (usually breasts or arse) more times than I can remember in my late teens through to my early 30s; had a doctor perform an internal examination without any form of chaperone or meaningful consent when I’d gone with IBS symptoms, aged about 24...that’s without thinking hard about it. Did I report any of it? Of course not, what’s the point?

Wagners I wasn't saying it was equivalent. But that I don't think it's a good way to raise awareness. For a number of reasons.