Frequency of sexual assault

[janetmendoza]

Are there any women at all who have never been sexually assaulted? Even in the uk at this point in history I think it is absolutely rife. I have only just started thinking about this and I would have said previously that I had never been assaulted, but thinking about it now I definitely have.
I think I have got off lightly but I can still list
Aged about 8 a man on a beach said he would teach me to swim and put his hand inside my bather as he was pretending to hold me in the water. My dad stormed over and hit him. I had no idea what was going on.
Aged about 14 a man with learning disabilities put his hand up my dress. My Mum told him off.
Aged about 20 a man managed to undo my bra on a bus in Italy and tried a bit of a grope. I got off the bus
Aged about 22 a man knocked me to the ground in a dark street and I think he intended to rape me. Luckily passers by arrived and he fled. I didn't report it.
So that's just me with my very sheltered life. I am interested to see if there is anyone at all who can say it has never happened to them. Is it something that can ever be eliminated?

That feels very low to me personally.

Most women I know have had multiple incidents.

Anyway.

On the men being surprised. Women have been banging on about this forever. When did reclaim the night start?

They either don't listen or don't care. Is the bottom line.

Since the definition of sexual assault has been steadily broadened during the decades I have been alive (and probably before and will be after), I’d agree that virtually every woman will experience a sexual assault at least once in her lifetime.

I’m not saying that the definition should be narrower or broader than it is, just saying that it has steadily grown to be more inclusive. In most ways this is a good trend because there was definitely sexually aggressive behaviour that we women suffered in the past which is now illegal and considered to be a criminal offence.

As for myself. Yes the full gamut has happened to me. I don’t however, think it is worse now than in the past. It’s always been very bad. Women were just more oppressed and so had less power to criminalise such things.

I doubt very much that "sexual assault" includes (or has ever included) wolfwhistles and suggestive remarks as girls in the street pass workmen on a site, or men rubbing themselves against women on public transport, or men hanging pictures of naked pneumatic women in their offices so that any women working there have to see them, or pinched bottoms, or any of the hundreds, maybe thousands, of other offensive-to-women bits of male behaviour which most men have never even noticed or given a thought, but most women have and have.

The most annoying words in the language may well be "it was only a joke!" after a man has said something offensive of a sexual nature and a woman has protested against it.

NiceGerbil
Women have been banging on about this forever. When did reclaim the night start?

1977, by which time I was married. Mostly it got laughed at, just as the stereotype of "women's libber" did at that time.

And I remember an older woman saying, "what do they mean 'reclaim'? It's never been safe to go out alone at night."

I find it interesting that some posters are referring to their experiences as “minor” or “groping” or “unwanted touching”. Sexual assault is sexual assault, and all sexual assault is technically a serious crime

I feel using language to minimise what has happened to you feeds the injustice we as women experience through what’s perceived as normal behaviour. Or how we as women should be responding to different acts. We shouldn’t have to justify or explain or describe any type of assault as “minor” in comparison to someone else’s experience. (Irrespective of what happened to be your own personal experience of it).

or men rubbing themselves against women on public transport

Call me naive, but I would have thought rubbing your penis (because, let's be honest, that's what we're talking about here) against a complete stranger without her consent is pretty clear-cut sexual assault. I still vividly remember my poor teacher on a school trip getting off the underground with a huge splodge of cum on the back of her skirt where some fucking pervert had wanked against her - I think even as 16 year olds, back in the 1980s, we recognised that for exactly what it was: a sexual assault.

As far as I can remember the worst has been a bit of wandering hands on a dancefloor, and nothing that's made me feel gross or anything, let alone anything more aggressive. I know I'm lucky. I've had men in my group when going out a comparatively large proportion of the time so not sure if that's helped.

Yes, nicegerbil, but those are just the crimes that are reported and recorded.

Of course most women don't bother - I never have, and I have had many 'reportable' incidents, from flashing, to groping, to rape and all in between.

I escaped some very scary situations whilst abroad which didn't really bother me at the time although in retrospect I was lucky.

The one that most upset me was having a guy wank onto my coat on the tube. I'd just moved to London to start a new job and it was a new, smart coat. I remember I had to carry my coat despite it being really cold and I didn't want to tell anyone. Definitely didn't report it so won't be counted in the 1 in 5 stats.

Boys exposed themselves at school to me from the age of five.
My boss (in his sixties) rubbing his penis against my arse whilst trapped in a tight space (my dad and step mum told me to stop making a fuss and just get on with it)
Men making lewd remarks whilst walking to school in uniform. A colleague walking me home and throwing me in a field, pinned me down and was about to rape me...I kicked him in the nuts and ran home)
More men than I care to remember grabbing my boobs/arse/slapping my arse in nightclubs.
Men forcing their tongues down my throat.
Sleeping with at least two men as thought if I didn’t they would rape me anyway.
Being set up by a friend , double date, he hardly spoke to me all night and then in the taxi home grabbed my vagina. I told him in my most ms trunchbull voice “how dare you grab my vagina”
Friends husband felt me up when he was sat next to me with her on his other side.
Those are just the ones I remember. I’m not good looking, just used to be slim with an Arse and big boobs. Apparently that’s an open invitation to most men 🙄🙄🙄

ArabellaScott
Yes, nicegerbil, but those are just the crimes that are reported and recorded.

That was what I meant when I wrote "I doubt very much that "sexual assault" includes (or has ever included) wolfwhistles and suggestive remarks as girls in the street pass workmen on a site, or men rubbing themselves against women on public transport, or men hanging pictures of naked pneumatic women in their offices so that any women working there have to see them, or pinched bottoms, or any of the hundreds, maybe thousands, of other offensive-to-women bits of male behaviour which most men have never even noticed or given a thought, but most women have and have."

Most such criminal or offensive behaviour is unlikely to be reported, I'd've thought. "My boss has a Pirelli calendar on his wall" wasn't going to get taken to court! And nor was "the men in the garage have page 3 nudes cut out and put on the wall". As for proving that a man on a crowded tube had been rubbing his penis against you -- not something the police would find easy to do. But we know about it, women have always known.

I remember wondering how easy it was going to be for bosses to enforce a "no more wolfwhistles" directive if there were to be one. (It hasn't happened, as far as I can make out; and idiot new-women who didn't grow up as teenage girls write stupid blogs about how flattered they were when they were whistled at; not very female reaction, that.)

I don't think it makes a difference if you are flat as an ironing board. But yeah, definitely noticed how boys will equate big boobs with asking for it.

I'm glad there are women who've never had everything, but I was flashed (and some kind of sexual comments) at 9 or 10, had my boob grabbed by a boy at school about 14, had a caller who was answering a for sale ad my dad had placed start to talk dirty to me at about 15, my sexual experience was being raped by my then boyfriend, then colleagues a the Christmas party kissing me without asking, and plenty of strange hands groping as I made my way to the bar throughout the years.

Not to mention DP thinking that roughly groping me 'in his sleep' having not spoken to me all day is acceptable, and I'm the one with the problem for not immediately leaping on his penis.

Never reported any of it of course, didn't see the point, or as a child was too ashamed to mention it (despite none of it being by my actions)

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

Bicycling to school when I was eight, I was called over by a man in a car stopped by the road. He showed me his erection and asked me if I thought he was fit to drive in that state: having two much older brothers and being fairly bomb-proof I looked him in the eye and said I wasn't an expert but I suggested he ought to ask a psychiatrist about his condition, then cycled off sharpish down an alley too narrow for a car.

At nine I was raped in a field by a man of perhaps seventeen.

I've lost count of the number of suggestive remarks made to me when I was in the street, and of men indulging in frottage on the Tube during rush-hours though I found that shouting about it usually got other men in the carriage angry with them and of being crudely propositioned at parties, and of being backed against walls and leered at at work ... all the usual stuff which mostly a woman ignores unless she is feeling particularly pissed off for some reason, and does some shouting.

I have been threatened with rape when I was in someone's car and got out of it (I stuck his knife in his shoulder and ran like hell) and when I was walking home at about eight one evening and was dragged into a garden (I was carrying a rolled-up newspaper so I hit him as hard as I could in the throat with it at a full lunge, because I was a fencer, and then stamped on his ribcage as hard as I could as I left because he fell over between me and the street at that point and I had to get past him) and when I was on my way to visit a friend just before chucking-out time (I caught his wrist with the cigarette he was brandishing at me and aimed the lit end at his eye, then ran away as he started to scream). Yes, I am reasonably large and was fit and able, but I just have aggressive reactions for some reason: maybe there was something inside saying, "No. Never again" and taking revenge for the frightened nine-year-old me. I don't regret any of these occasions; I hope maybe those thugs may have learned from them not to do it again.

You are fucking awesome @AskingQuestionsAllTheTime 🙌🏼🙌🏼😍😍😍😍

Well, Asking, I daresay most rape goes unreported, too.

Another question of course is "is that figure reported rapes, or only successfully prosecuted rapes?"

@psed

I find it interesting that some posters are referring to their experiences as “minor” or “groping” or “unwanted touching”. Sexual assault is sexual assault, and all sexual assault is technically a serious crime

I feel using language to minimise what has happened to you feeds the injustice we as women experience through what’s perceived as normal behaviour. Or how we as women should be responding to different acts. We shouldn’t have to justify or explain or describe any type of assault as “minor” in comparison to someone else’s experience. (Irrespective of what happened to be your own personal experience of it).

I think this might be a generational and/or cultural thing because some of us grew up in times/places where there was indecent assault and sexual assault (full on rape) literally listed as two different crimes. Indecent assault would include sexual touching, groping, kisses- it was rarely prosecuted and women were often mocked and ignored by police if they tried to press charges. The penalties were minor as well.

It is only in recent decades that the two were combined into one- sexual assault. So I don’t think what you are seeing is posters trying to minimise what happened. They are literally voices from the past relating the truth that when these things happened, they were considered minor. They were not serious crimes then. It’s not feeding injustice, it’s relating the reality of past injustice.

There was debate to be heard about whether "indecent exposure" was "indecent assault" or not, I seem to remember.

If you count very mild stuff e.g. groping, then yes I would say no female has likely escaped it completely. 'Sexual harassment' hasn't been illegal for that long really; so there was loads of it going on in 70's and 8o's. It's almost like the mentality was worse than a Carry On Film and women just expected to be treated in that way.

Yes I remember when sexual harassment became illegal. At first, it had very strict definition- sexual advances of a boss/superior that you had to accept as a condition of continued employment or had refused which then caused you to lose your job. The times have definitely evolved for the better!

Just catching up

'I remember wondering how easy it was going to be for bosses to enforce a "no more wolfwhistles" directive if there were to be one.'

Yes there has been and it worked. Men working on buildings were awful when I was young. Whistling leering. Shouting stuff. Sometimes if they were on the ground following you a bit. All of it was about showing off to mates and this weird thing where scaring girls or upsetting them is great fun. The worst though was when you walked past and they would all go silent and just stare. That felt really threatening.

In the? 90s maybe the building industry said it's not ok. If you're hired on a job you cant do that. It was considerate building or something? Anyway it more or less just stopped. Really fast.

So yes this has happened and it did work.

The stuff I mention above was when I was in school uniform walking by myself from 10 upwards. I found it terrifying tbh.

'If you count very mild stuff e.g. groping, then yes I would say no female has likely escaped it completely.'

But it's not mild, is it.

If you're 14 and a random man follows you and sticks his hand up your top. If you're in an enclosed space eg a lift with some men who know each other and a hand goes up your skirt while they all smirk at each other.

That's not minor.

And the impact on the he victim differs. In a way. Depending on the attitude of the criminal. As well as what he did.

Our laws are based in property crime. And in the sort of crime men do to each other. And has an aspect of keeping the outdoors safe.

So if it's a mugging or a punch in the face or a theft or a brawl or stabbing it is recognised by society and police as A Bad Thing.

But DV? CSA? Tricky. Where is the harm to wider society? Whose property has been damaged? Where are the stab wounds?

The female experience is just not recognised, the types of threats and harms that are done to us from too young.

When I was a girl it was clear. If anything happens. It's your problem, you deal with it. Most stuff can be 'laughed off'...

So for example the term sexual assault. Assault on a male model means hands on. Anything not hands on is not that bad...

But it can be. A man masturbating at you in a deserted situation, while saying threatening things. Is really scary. Not trivial. But the current model doesn't recognise that. If he walked up and punched you in the face it would be Definitely Bad. It's different. But the former is not trivial.

I have little faith in the authorities to give a shit tbh I think it's even worse than when I was young! Even taking different reporting levels into account.

Very depressing.

Several times.

raped by my bf almost 2 years ago when i was 14.

i didn't know until a few months after because i think i wasn't 'there' the whole time as i don't remember some things.
he told me what he had done with no shame and i still stayed until he had gotten bored of me.

oh, and obviously never reported it.