Discussion thread - GC? Radfem? Terminology we use, and does it matter?

[xxyzz]

Just this. Sparked by a slight bicker between two people I follow on Twitter, both of whom I generally agree with, with one saying the other 'wasn't really GC'. It reminded me of other discussions I've seen between people arguing over whether they'd call themselves radfems or GC or neither, and that I wasn't (truth be told) that sure of the difference.

So - what is the difference, assuming there is one? I often call myself GC but probably my preferred term would be 'feminist' - I stand up for equal rights for women, in a long tradition of other women doing the same. It's a widely-understood term, in the way that radfem and GC aren't.

So what do you call yourself? Does it matter? Would a different or new term do better?

NB Please note this is not a thread for swords to be crossed at dawn with political enemies, just a gentle look at terminology for that slow period in the run up to the new year... :)

Second NB - given that we are often labelled as T*fs, involuntarily, I think it's useful to think about what terms we feel represent us, rather than accepting others' labels. I know there are women who do embrace the T*f label, although I can't personally.

But another thought to add.

The problem with the terminology is that every term means different things to different people. So with no agreed definitions, we always end up either talking at cross-purposes or questioning what exactly you mean by that word.

Being able to communicate with people outside of our echo chamber is very important. It's frustrating seeing posters from FWR go into a thread in AIBU that's discussing trans issues and using specialised terminology such as "TRA" and "AGP" and expecting casual readers to immediately understand or to seek a translation.

@WhereYouLeftIt

The problem with the terminology is that every term means different things to different people. So with no agreed definitions, we always end up either talking at cross-purposes or questioning what exactly you mean by that word.

Agree, that was rather the point of this thread!

Not that I think there is a definite answer to this, but I'm interested in finding out more about the origins of the terms.

I don't know what I'd use to refer to myself as because I don't know what sort of situation I'd have to make such a reference.

I think id just say feminist

Im gender critical...but not just that

And when i did one of those ‘what type of feminist are you’ things i came out rad/lib and intersectional. Evenly...ish

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

I think id just say feminist

Im gender critical...but not just that

And when i did one of those ‘what type of feminist are you’ things i came out rad/lib and intersectional. Evenly...ish

Didn't know there was such a thing. Do you have a link?

I say I am a feminist. If I'm feeling particularly arsey, I'll say I campaign for women's liberation. I don't refer to gender unless it relevant to a conversation. As a feminist, I believe gender is a harmful system that disadvantages women, but I'm not going to define my beliefs using the things I stand against. I'm not a rape-critical feminist, or a patriarchy-critical feminist.

I mean, if feminist isn't enough, and I accept that it often needs qualifying these days, I'll go with a positive spin and say 'woman-focused feminist', because that idea seems to piss off lots of self-defined feminists who prefer us to focus on everyone but women.

@HubertHerbert

I don't know what I'd use to refer to myself as because I don't know what sort of situation I'd have to make such a reference.

You're not obliged to call yourself anything. I'm on Twitter so do sometimes feel the need to define myself, in opposition to those who would label me a T*.

Oh I don’t think i do xxyy

I’ll see if i can remember where it was....its deffo on here

I think it might be this one

openpsychometrics.org/tests/FPS.php

Thanks, Rufus. :)

I think it's important to reassert that GC feminism IS feminism. I think over time that it will come to be understood that those that didn't stand by women (particularly the most vulnerable - women in jail and refuges) weren't feminists.

I would call myself a feminist, and if pushed explain that my feminism is focused on women's rights and experiences. Women's. Not men's.

I would not use the term gc in general as whilst I consider gender unhelpful the term can come across as critical of people for whom gender is important, and often for such people I feel things like sadness

I’m not really bothered.

I don’t think I qualify as proper Radfem because I’m happily married to a chap.

Yet at the the same time, I believe all feminism should be critical of sex stereotypes (ie gender) so GC is unnecessary unless you are talking about gender critical people who are non feminist?

Purity politics are boring and self defeating.

We won’t all agree all the time and that’s ok.
In fact, robust disagreement should be welcome. We aren’t a political party or a club with membership rules, so there is no right or wrong way to oppose the creeping authoritarianism of transgenderideology dogma.

I always thought that Radfem simply meant that you recognised that there were societal factors in discrimination as opposed to liberal feminism which is simply about women without acknowledging the society effect. So for liberal feminist, having a women do well proves everything is ok, when a group based analyst might suggest otherwise

It's nothing to do with personal relationships . Radical in wanting to change society not just promote individual women

True, but my reality does nothing to kick against societal expectations.

IMO, actions are more important than words, and my actions are in line with the status quo, rather than actively working towards societal change - Radfem is too big a title for little old me!

I always thought that Radfem simply meant that you recognised that there were societal factors in discrimination as opposed to liberal feminism which is simply about women without acknowledging the society effect.

Yes, changing society -the oppression of women lying in patriarchal control, supported by the way society is organised.

I'd love some good reading recommendations on radical feminism.

I don't call myself a gc feminist because it's a tautology: if it ain't critical of the mechanism of women's oppression then it ain't feminism.

Also, not that keen on identity labels; I may say "speaking with my radfem hat on" or "I'm more into radical feminism" but I'm unlikely to say "I am a radical feminist" because it feels weird, and opens one up to challenge.

On the subject of new words, I'm inclined to think we'd do better to reclaim those which have been colonised, cos the buggers redefined feminism before they redefined woman, and we could play this game for eternity, constantly thinking of new words because the old and perfectly serviceable ones have been appropriated, but it'll never end and it'll never lead to liberation. It's just an ongoing reminder that we are denied the power of naming.

Im probably more rad than not

Rad makes more sense to me

Socialist feminist. I’ve been one for going into four decades now and long before the term ‘gender critical’ was invented.

Mostly consider myself to be a radical feminist even though my feminism didn't really get going until the late 80s early 90s. I didn't see why I should be treated any different to my older brother, which was going along fine for me, up until I got pregnant!

Have always been GNC so am critical of gender stereotypes that limit people but understand how women's bodies are key to understanding our oppression.

Although I don't agree with Greer all the time 'The Female Eunuch' and 'The Whole Woman' are excellent books for outlining the salient issues.

theconversation.com/friday-essay-the-female-eunuch-at-50-germaine-greers-fearless-feminist-masterpiece-147437

I guess I see radical feminism as feminism - uprooting the patriarchy. I think splintering feminism helps to divide women.