Janice Turner on menopausal women and other great stuff

[SophocIestheFox]

Wonderful article from Janice this morning, who is doing nothing whatsoever to lessen my thumping girl crush on her

The jumping off point is Penny Lancaster going to work as a special constable, but the article is about way more than that.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5120c2f8-46e0-11eb-afd8-7d77005d5199?shareToken=e8e4c000f5d87a707f0b2abfd768941e

For women, ageing is seen only in terms of loss: looks, sexual allure, heads turned. Lately menopause has gone from never being discussed to being exaggerated into an evil alien life form which sucks all energy and happiness along with calcium from your bones: a condition which requires special office crying rooms or leave from careers women spent lifetimes building. Yes, for many it is awful and medical help is patchy. But it can also be transformative. The fragile butterfly returns to the chrysalis and emerges with a shiny, indestructible carapace

The bit about menopause support in the workplace was interesting. I’ve noticed a recent trend towards all kinds of accommodation being offered- time off, counselling, courses etc- and I’m not really in favour. Firstly - it’s private. I don’t want to talk to colleagues about it. Secondly- while it can be difficult, and cause all kinds of horrendous symptoms, I don’t think the kid glove treatment is at all helpful. Normal sickness procedures should be adequate, and just a bit of human understanding is enough, isn’t it? And thirdly, I absolutely agree that it’s actually a time of enormous power and transformation in a woman’s life, and we mustn’t lose sight of that by making it seem scary or like an illness.

The main thrust of the article is about having a purpose, though. She finishes it “we are what we do”- couldn’t agree more.

the young woman’s curse is perpetually needing to be liked, to put too much store by the opinion of worthless fools, to hold your body up to ideals it can never match and squeeze your personality into an acceptable shape. “Like” my selfie, everyone, please!

Whereas I’ve lost count of the marriages I’ve seen ended by wives who woke up at 50, the caring female hormones which cushioned their sharp edges suddenly depleted, who decide this house, this set-up, this man they’d lived with for decades was no longer what they wanted. Or they renegotiate their marriage contracts, redistribute domestic chores, make space for their own interests. Or like Penny Lancaster get a new job. (If Rod had tried to stifle her plans, would she have stayed?)

Brilliant. Agree with you re menopause accommodations- unnecscary and patronising.

I agree. I'm fed up of the menopause being another stick to beat women with.

Excellent article, thanks for the share. I will form an orderly queue behind you to crush on JT.

Menopause at work is a tricky one, probably partly because of the (understandable) desire for privacy. How can employers support women when they can't actually raise the subject? We have this issue at work just now - the time off involved is considerable and there are various practical issues (toilets, again) to navigate. Yet this must all be somehow sensitively sorted without discussion. Not easy.

I thought the bit about menopause was dismissive and patronising. It would be no exaggeration to say that mine nearly ruined my life (thank god for hrt). It wasn't in the slightest bit "transformative", I was perfectly capable of saying what I did and didn't want to do before thanks. A misstep from St Janice afaic

I suspect that there is a huge variability in how people experience menopause
For many women , they may be more worried about being written off at work being "a certain age" than anything else
Others get horrendous problems that dominate their life
It's wrong to assume something about people , such as how they will react to menopause or what if any support they will need simply because they are women

I think there is a trouble saying normal sickness procedures will cover any problems

If you are off for lots of odd days, which I think menopause and period troubles are more likely to result in, you will get negative marks over your sick record
If you are off for 6 months due to a heart attack ( which I think affect middle aged men more) then no negative mark

Women are I think much more likely than men to have th type of issues that needs occasional sick days that get penalised in most work places

I suspect that there is a huge variability in how people experience menopause

Yes of course, ditto periods.

Sorry to hear that, mrsmia. I wouldn’t want to downplay that it can be extremely horrible. Mine was difficult as well. While the actual meno symptoms were pretty easy to control with hrt, it triggered a number of autoimmune conditions, which are much harder to deal with. But realistically what can my work do about it? Nothing- I just have to get on with it. As long as they’re not dicks, it doesn’t need particular special treatment.

@SophocIestheFox

Sorry to hear that, mrsmia. I wouldn’t want to downplay that it can be extremely horrible. Mine was difficult as well. While the actual meno symptoms were pretty easy to control with hrt, it triggered a number of autoimmune conditions, which are much harder to deal with. But realistically what can my work do about it? Nothing- I just have to get on with it. As long as they’re not dicks, it doesn’t need particular special treatment.

No, but it's reassuring that a work environment wants to make an effort to support women if they need it. Not sure why that's at all controversial.

I think there's truth in both views. The invisibility - and young women ignore me just as much as men do - was probably the biggest shock, but it's also quite liberating.

But the potential impact on your health and mental well-being is also very real, and I've little time for the idealism or the quasi spirituality. It's a normal life stage, nothing more and nothing less.

The menopause at work is a difficult one. I expect as a journalist & writer, janice works from home most of the the time & that makes a lot of difference. I started mine about 2 years ago & Im self employed & work from home which means when I couldn’t sleep, or had the sweats very badly or just had those days where I wanted to kill ppl, I didn’t have to cope with it in an office which I think makes it much easier

Now I’m starting the joy of VA & was horrified at how hard I had to fight my GP to get medication for it “but you’re already on HRT”

What I am glad about is that at least it’s been talked about

It's a normal life stage, nothing more and nothing less

Agree.

I think there’s something in the point that traditional models of sick leave unduly penalise women, though, definitely. A colleague suffers from migraines and the repeated one/two day absences are constantly triggering absence management procedures.

But I think there must be a way to address that without making women in their fifties feel patronised, or obligated to disclose more about their health than they want to.

It's reassuring for me that the conversation has opened up. My mum suffered horrendously, and combined with a stressful job and depression - she left work early.

Being able to talk frankly about what you need in terms of support, why you need it, and being listened to without embarrassment on either side is what I would like for everyone.

One thing owning menopause in print or anonymous forums, quite another in front of your peers and professionals.

@SophocIestheFox

It's a normal life stage, nothing more and nothing less

Agree.

Which can be very unpleasant for many women.

Yes, mrsmia, including me, as I’ve said.

It can be awful, but then again I've also been through PMDD and PCOS and have worked through all of it... I guess ideally what would be great is if women could request more support and flexibility if these issues are affecting their health in major ways. In my case I regularly had to take time off work because I was bleeding so extravagantly. But I don't think we need some kind of special treatment just because we have periods or go through menopause - for many women, these are not illnesses or disabilities, just normal parts of life. But yes of course support should be available to women who need it.

The problem we are having is lots of repeteated sick leave, over a pretty long period of time, with no overt explanation for why and no sick lines. So it's very difficult to support said member of staff. Other members of staff we have coped with various health issues/absences but it's all much easier when out in the open - partly because one can then plan for contingencies. (I know (very roughly) what the problem is only because I have been accidentally copied into correspondence, which of course I can't and wouldn't raise.)

Menopause per se does not require any time off work, or “special accommodations”.
What may require these are the pathological symptoms that accompany the menopause in some women. So, you are not having time off for “menopause”, you are having time off for menorrhagia, insomnia, exhaustion, depression or whatever.
Which is perfectly reasonable, and should not be instead labelled as menopause and implied to be something that employers must expect all women workers to suffer - therefore making them reluctant to employ older women at all.
I went through menopause as a hospital doctor, and didn’t need any measures at all. Sure, I had a few sweats, some heavier periods and many nights of broken sleep, but I didn’t need “special” measures at work.
By contrast, a theatre colleague couldn’t even scrub up for procedures, as she sweated right through her surgical gown in minutes. That was a problem that needed treatment, so she saw her GP and started HRT. She had a sick note until her symptoms were controlled- it was none of our employer’s business, and she didn’t want management involved in her personal health problems.

We've only recently started talking about menopause in society, and already there's a "when will women stop going on about menopause?" backlash! I personally found very little support at work (front facing role in university library, wasn't even allowed to have a bottle of iced water to help with debilitating hot flushes) and was given a patronising heave ho at my GP surgery. I've only recently sought help again, after 7 years of symptoms leading to life feeling unbearable, and finally found some informed help at a menopausal specialist clinic (which I had to pay for). I really don't think menopause can be dismissed or talked up as some splendid rite of passage, there needs to be more research done to find new treatments, and more help available on the NHS.

Which can be very unpleasant for many women.
Yes, that was why I talked about the potential impact on health and wellbeing. The 'normal life stage' comment was about the near mystical reverence with which it's viewed tin some quarters.

By contrast, a theatre colleague couldn’t even scrub up for procedures, as she sweated right through her surgical gown in minutes. That was a problem that needed treatment, so she saw her GP and started HRT. She had a sick note until her symptoms were controlled- it was none of our employer’s business, and she didn’t want management involved in her personal health problems

Didn't her employer care that she couldn't scrub up for procedures?!

I was more interested in the main point of the column, not meno but what may follow
But it can also be transformative. The fragile butterfly returns to the chrysalis and emerges with a shiny, indestructible carapace.

I like that metamorphosis. Of course, many women aren't fragile butterflies in their youth but leaving those stereotypes behind can be liberating.

Rather at Bailey's description “They become a different person,” he said. “They almost become men, a lot of women. More tough and down to earth.”

'Almost become men?' What, like almost a proper human? no... we become fully mature women, thank you very much.

Respect for penny

I thought the men comparison was horrible.

In fact I hated the whole article sorry

We've only recently started talking about menopause in society, and already there's a "when will women stop going on about menopause?" backlash

Exactly this. The default worker is still largely seen as male and workplaces are not set up very well to cope with women's different biological and social needs across our lifespans. It's not about having special processes to cope with women who are having "problems" (it was estimated that nearly 1m women leave the workforce each year because of the menopause) it's about setting up systems that minimise "problems" in the first place, the difference between a social model and a medical model.