Janice Turner on menopausal women and other great stuff

[SophocIestheFox]

Wonderful article from Janice this morning, who is doing nothing whatsoever to lessen my thumping girl crush on her

The jumping off point is Penny Lancaster going to work as a special constable, but the article is about way more than that.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5120c2f8-46e0-11eb-afd8-7d77005d5199?shareToken=e8e4c000f5d87a707f0b2abfd768941e

For women, ageing is seen only in terms of loss: looks, sexual allure, heads turned. Lately menopause has gone from never being discussed to being exaggerated into an evil alien life form which sucks all energy and happiness along with calcium from your bones: a condition which requires special office crying rooms or leave from careers women spent lifetimes building. Yes, for many it is awful and medical help is patchy. But it can also be transformative. The fragile butterfly returns to the chrysalis and emerges with a shiny, indestructible carapace

The bit about menopause support in the workplace was interesting. I’ve noticed a recent trend towards all kinds of accommodation being offered- time off, counselling, courses etc- and I’m not really in favour. Firstly - it’s private. I don’t want to talk to colleagues about it. Secondly- while it can be difficult, and cause all kinds of horrendous symptoms, I don’t think the kid glove treatment is at all helpful. Normal sickness procedures should be adequate, and just a bit of human understanding is enough, isn’t it? And thirdly, I absolutely agree that it’s actually a time of enormous power and transformation in a woman’s life, and we mustn’t lose sight of that by making it seem scary or like an illness.

The main thrust of the article is about having a purpose, though. She finishes it “we are what we do”- couldn’t agree more.

the young woman’s curse is perpetually needing to be liked, to put too much store by the opinion of worthless fools, to hold your body up to ideals it can never match and squeeze your personality into an acceptable shape. “Like” my selfie, everyone, please!

Whereas I’ve lost count of the marriages I’ve seen ended by wives who woke up at 50, the caring female hormones which cushioned their sharp edges suddenly depleted, who decide this house, this set-up, this man they’d lived with for decades was no longer what they wanted. Or they renegotiate their marriage contracts, redistribute domestic chores, make space for their own interests. Or like Penny Lancaster get a new job. (If Rod had tried to stifle her plans, would she have stayed?)

'Almost become men?' What, like almost a proper human?confused no... we become fully mature women, thank you very much.

Yes, very good point, Errol.

Now, with many assumptions about working practices blown away, may be a good opportunity for women to work on reshaping what emerges into a less default-male model. A mix including working from home and more flexible hours should have obvious benefits for many women going through the menopause.

@ErrolTheDragon

Now, with many assumptions about working practices blown away, may be a good opportunity for women to work on reshaping what emerges into a less default-male model. A mix including working from home and more flexible hours should have obvious benefits for many women going through the menopause.

Definitely.

We've only recently started talking about menopause in society, and already there's a "when will women stop going on about menopause backlash

Absolutely, bloody annoying it is too.its like we've been bleating on about it for decades or something.

I'm in the midst of menopause and I'm somehow still working. But I keep wanting to quit, it's really knocked me and even with HRT I'm struggling badly.
My company is draconian about sick too. As a pp points out, a good long time off is seen as better than 6 days over 4 months. Bloody stupid.

It's as variable as periods. Some women find them hugely debilitating, while others are merely inconvenienced.

I didn't stop working during menopause and only did a few months of hrt - I didn't find it made the blindest bit of difference but I was on ADs for a while and they helped.

Assuming it's going to be awful is not helpful. Women shouldn't dread it.

How many women reached menopause 150 years ago? What was the life expectancy?

I think average life expectancy for women in the mid 19th century was early 40s. However I understand many of those women died either as infants or in (repeated) childbirth so, if you survived both, I would imagine you had a decent chance of making it to the menopause. I don't know if there are figures that reflect that?

Was thinking about this again as I was pottering round this afternoon.

For those who would want to see more support from employers around menopause, what would that look like?

I’m coming at it from working for a large corporate who have recently started to hold menopause awareness sessions for line managers and I found them totally cringe. I came away with the impression that women in their fifties shouldn’t be expected to do anything taxing at all, that we are just helpless bundles of clots and hormones. I’ve gone through meno (twice actually, thanks to being given triptolerin for endo in my thirties) and I didn’t resonate with any of it.

That said, I am not on board with the “bring your whole self to work” culture. I go, I do my job, I try to get on with my co workers, and I go home. I don’t expect my employer to care over much for my emotional well-being.

What would be the right balance of being supportive while not creating the impression that menopausal women are a liability? I think it has to be done in a more general fashion, such as sick leave policies that don’t penalise cyclical debility.

I think in general there needs to be a lot more education about what is permissible during sick leave. I had a month off work after a serious accident which left me partially disabled and my boss kept on making comments that when he broke his arm, he was back much sooner. (His injury was nothing like as serious and in any case, making comparisons is not helpful). I ended up going back into work on a drip as I couldn't cope with him hassling me anymore! I'm not sure whether "time off for menopause" could actually backfire if managers are not taught to respect boundaries in general.

Pleased by the mention of the Menopause but afraid I'm reserving judgement about PL as a special constable.

She has a reputation for treating hospitality staff poorly.

This is really interesting to me. I don’t think all the talking about it at work recently is without problems itself.
At 44 I feel like I’ve only just got through the “but what if she gets pregnant mid-project” whispers and now I’m bracing myself for whispers about “it’s the change”. It feels to me like when people assume pmt anytime a woman gets justifiably angry or frustrated.
Obviously I’ve not gone through it yet and if I need sick leave or flexible hours I want that to be available, but I do not want men or younger women thinking or being told I’m less capable or irrational for five years due to menopause.

I read an article a while ago which had a stat saying the number of women that leave work early due to menopause and it was a massive number.

When it's affecting women's ability to work, and when women tend to be lower paid and have much less pension etc than men, it's a serious societal issue affecting women IE a feminist issue. Whether it's employers, laws, doctors or what that need to do something I don't know maybe it's a combination. But it's not trivial if women who need money can't work because of it and struggle to get treatment.

I'll try to find the stat.

Other things.

Yes to this stuff about talking about it will limit women being hired, haven't we been through all this with maternity?

So impressed with penny L that's amazing. Just properly brilliant.

Also yes to the almost like men comment WTF. Also that there's a reason young women behave how they do and it's not because they're not man like enough yet. It's because they are raised to be people pleasing, scrutinised and judged on their looks, subject to male gaze constantly. When the men stop looking you feel so much more confident and relaxed. I love it personally. I didn't realise how heavily it weighed on me at a subconscious level.

The menopause at work thing was brought home to me by a friend who had managed to keep her career going through two divorces.

She started suffering from anxiety and spent her lunchtimes walking to help herself. However, it was noticed and she was 'managed out' of a career she had dedicated her life to.

She went to tribunal and got damages for constructive dismissal and retrained to something she wanted to do, but wasn't going to pay all the bills for the youngest which is a worry.

The trouble is that there are so many other symptoms aside from the stereotypical hot flushes, that women do not realise what they are going through for a while.

Sophocles I can’t stand the “bring your whole self to work” culture either. Various of my employers have been selling this as a way to retain staff and maintain morale despite a long term real terms pay cut, reduced headcount and increased workload. It’s such a fake concept- most employers would shit themselves if even a small proportion of staff were actually real at work. I would much rather have a professional boundary between home and work. It’s just another part of the ‘always on’ culture.

Anyway I am also quite relieved to read something by Janice T that didn’t resonate with me particularly, because I was beginning to worry that she could see into my thoughts or something

I absolutely do want employers to be mindful and supportive of meno issues. Much as I am grateful to anyone volunteering for public service, I also don’t think that it’s any woman’s duty to be useful to others once they aren’t of patriarchally fuckable age anymore. A lot of women have to spend their whole lives being useful to others.

I like the idea of liberation from the male gaze but I resent the expectation of then being obliged to exist for the benefit of others to compensate for daring to continue to exist in the world as a woman, unfuckably.

Employers also seem to believe that utility to others is the duty and purpose of older women, expecting there to be grandmas (but not grandpas) available to help out with regular and emergency childcare etc. Not to mention it’s completely unrealistic when many older women need to carry on working as long as they can to keep afloat financially.

Yes, Chatty, absolutely true about 'being useful'. As if women don't spend large chunks of their lives being (invisibly) useful.

I am anticipating time when children have grown and - at some point - retirement as time I don't actually have to be useful or responsible for anyone except myself!

I also don't like the bring your whole self to work thing.

For some women this is a medical issue though. And one that is a bit not spoken about, and understanding/ treatment is poor.

It's a difficult line for women. We are trying to fit in/ get ahead/ keep our jobs in a work environment designed, as with everything, to fit men.

Many women can and do fit in pretty easily. But stuff around our biology- women who have be debilitating periods, pregnancy and mat leave, menopause. Are minefields. On the one hand these things are things loads of women experience and currently it can impact their progression/ reputation/ opportunities/ job security. So we should talk about them to make things better. OTOH if we talk about it, won't we make people wary of hiring us?

This is the bind we are in because it's a male world and we are always on the back foot. Janice takes the 'don't let them see weakness' perspective and menopause yay we're finally nearly as good as men. That attitude would have meant no mat pay etc back in the day.

It is tricky. And women argue about the best approach. And lots sadly say if you get pregnant/ have health issues related to reproduction then really you shouldn't be working. That's an extreme reaction but it comes from the same place. If we show them weakness we will all be chucked out... It comes from fear.

We fight for how to best get on in a world not built for us while the men carry on oblivious to these issues/ rows etc

most employers would shit themselves if even a small proportion of staff were actually real at work.

Too right