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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Who did JK Rowling become?

103 replies

BraveBananaBadge · 23/12/2020 07:59

A long read in New York magazine about what made JKR such a meanie. Surprisingly in-depth and not quite so much about the feelz, but you know a man would never, ever get this treatment.

I was pleasantly surprised by the comments section, especially for an American publication. Plenty of people seeing it for what it is and asking logical questions (read it last night, so hope they’re still there...)

www.thecut.com/article/who-did-j-k-rowling-become.html?fbclid=IwAR1PB4xuZKKgJHZA5jqQng-oaukuWPhLGcx5uindUO6aL4EiSI3fUc4iiCA

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/12/2020 08:12

She absolutely believes that she is right, that she’s on a mission, and that history will eventually bear her out,” Anelli told me. “She thinks she’s doing good work right now.”

She's right.

Are you in a place now where you can accept that you will always be rich?” she asked.
No,” said Rowling. “Are you?”
Winfrey said she was (“Kinda. Getting there”). Perhaps Rowling’s immediate reply had been British self-effacement, but it also suggested a certain alienation from the circumstances she had attained.

It feels like this sly person is insinuating that JKR isn't grateful enough.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/12/2020 08:13

In Rowling’s world, for example, gender was an essential, immutable fact, and it had been that way from her first flicker of inspiration. “From the word go, it was a boy,” she has said of imagining her protagonist. “I never thought, Oh, maybe it’s a girl. Never once. It was always a boy.” Yet Rowling also invented the character Nymphadora Tonks (known as Tonks) a “Metamorphmagus” able to change shape at will. Klink remembers writing “the queerest fanfic I’ve ever written” about Tonks turning into a man. Since then, Klink has come out as nonbinary. “I loved Tonks and for a lot of other people who are nonbinary, Tonks was a big deal,” they told me. But “when you look back on Tonks, Tonks never changes into a guy. Tonks never changes into anything but different kinds of girl.”

This is so ridiculous I don't have any words.

BraveBananaBadge · 23/12/2020 08:19

It goes some way to explaining that strange sense of entitlement over Harry Potter (which I’m too old to understand), but there’s certainly a sense that her protecting her IP is somehow a... problem?

As someone in the comments put it, no-one would ask the same of Steve Jobs (for example).

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/12/2020 08:33

This comment: 🙄

But still, I understand how you feel. So what's the solution? Basically what it comes down to is either you have to get over it, or the transwoman does. So how do we decide who has to get over it? Well... maybe it should be based on who is more in danger. You, with a single transwoman in a locker room, or her in a locker room full of men? Or maybe it should be based on who is most uncomfortable? You, who feels unsafe near a penis, or her, who has to wrestle with an intense feeling of not-belonging and being a disgusting, third-rate, fake woman. Who wins?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/12/2020 08:36

It goes some way to explaining that strange sense of entitlement over Harry Potter (which I’m too old to understand), but there’s certainly a sense that her protecting her IP is somehow a... problem?

As someone in the comments put it, no-one would ask the same of Steve Jobs (for example).

YY. The whole article is written in this tone. As for the "helpful" clarification by Alison Phipps that all GC women are abuse victims who can't help ourselves in our terror Hmm

teawamutu · 23/12/2020 08:39

Mealy mouthed, self righteous crap about an uppity woman daring to defend her intellectual property, privacy and right to an opinion.

Excellent comments, though. Sorted by most liked, the sensible ones are right at the top.

BreatheAndFocus · 23/12/2020 08:44

In Rowling’s world, for example, gender was an essential, immutable fact, and it had been that way from her first flicker of inspiration. “From the word go, it was a boy,” she has said of imagining her protagonist

Not gender - sex! I’m getting more and more riled by the casual conflation of sex and gender.

As for the fans thinking they ‘own’ books and characters (and TV shows), I think they need to grow up. It’s normal to identify with particular characters, or feel a connection or affection for them, but once you start thinking you own them and know more about them than the author, you’ve gone OTT.

IDanielRadcliffe · 23/12/2020 08:46

I was going to post this. I mean how dare she protect what she created? How dare she live in a secure house? Just who does she think she is? Clearly signs of a transphobic megalomaniac.

Dances · 23/12/2020 08:48

TL:DR? JK is a big meanie and there is a mad woman in Canada who wears a sandwich board with I Love JKR on it so she is mad

P.S. no mention in this ridiculously long account of the meanie terfs about the Trans Rights mob vandalising and nailing a dead rat to the door of the Vancouver Rape Crisis Centre.

NotBadConsidering · 23/12/2020 08:48

The article oozes with envy and misogyny. Frequent references to her success, her looks, her expensive shoes, the fact that she was able to use her wealth to not do an interview with Oprah in a Holiday Inn conference room. It’s bitter and nasty and worst of all, derivative. There isn’t an original idea in the whole piece which, for a writer, is the most offensive bit of all.

BraveBananaBadge · 23/12/2020 08:49

Ohhh, that comment! A précis:

“Actually, I stopped using my gym because there was often a man with his penis out in the women’s changing room”

“Well, that’s your problem, they’ll be brutally murdered if you don’t let them”

Also saw someone discussing this article elsewhere, who said JKR’s essay gave them PTSD.

This is what women are up against?

OP posts:
midgebabe · 23/12/2020 08:54

If courses transwomen are safer in the female locker room

As is every Kevin or Fred

Because most violence is originated by males

Grasses · 23/12/2020 08:58

"being a disgusting, third-rate, fake woman" well at least the TRAs have their new slogan

BreatheAndFocus · 23/12/2020 08:59

I couldn’t read the whole article because the tone of it was so stupid - ooh, we were summoned to this, JKR seemed nice at first but turned out to be a nasty ole baddie, isolated from normal society by her wealth and arrogance, she randomly started attacking the most vulnerable people in the world! !!

I found myself continually muttering “Fuck off!” as I read it. Scrolled down to the comments and there are some great ones there eg the race comparison, but the responses to that just show the brainwashing and total lack of thought. Those people won’t ever see.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/12/2020 09:01

TL:DR? JK is a big meanie and there is a mad woman in Canada who wears a sandwich board with I Love JKR on it so she is mad

It's a man.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 23/12/2020 09:05

Reading that magazine article gave me a very weird sort of cross-eyed experience. The writer accurately reports JKR’s generosity, intelligence and honesty, at great length, but constantly drawing negative conclusions.

This one makes me laugh:
The divide here between mainstream British feminists and their American counterparts is striking: American opponents of trans rights tend to be right wing. The difference reflects, perhaps, the relative insularity and homogeneity of British feminism. In America, challenges from feminists across marginalized groups have increasingly pressed those who would speak on behalf of “women” to reexamine whom they mean.

Because of course the English, Scottish, Welsh and myriad other nationalities in our population are all identical, all fitting one stereotype, along with all our sexual orientations, political stances, religious beliefs, tastes .....

Perhaps putting “women” in inverted commas tells readers all we need to know about the author.

YippeeKayakOtherBuckets · 23/12/2020 09:06

There’s a nasty bit in there (I really don’t have the energy to read it again to find it) that dismisses her abusive marriage down to, oh he slapped her once.

Nasty and spiteful tone to the whole thing but that took the biscuit for me.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/12/2020 09:06

but the responses to that just show the brainwashing and total lack of thought. Those people won’t ever see.

I agree. It's depressing how little regard these people of both sexes have for the feelings and comfort of women or other women. And the hyperbole they spout about trans people's feelings and right to feel safe.

Dances · 23/12/2020 09:10

Eresh
How do you know it's a man?
Xmas Smile
To be fair, I was so bored shitless by that point and my skim reading was more floating

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/12/2020 09:11

There’s a nasty bit in there (I really don’t have the energy to read it again to find it) that dismisses her abusive marriage down to, oh he slapped her once.

Not just that, "he slapped her once the night she left", as if it were somehow understandable. Insinuating DV victims brought it on themselves, way to go, progressive people! Hmm

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 23/12/2020 09:13

There’s a nasty bit in there (I really don’t have the energy to read it again to find it) that dismisses her abusive marriage down to, oh he slapped her once.

That stood out for me too. The whole piece is a determined effort to undermine her. Plus the idea running thought it that the fans own her work is a nonsense and it just wouldn't be applied to a male author. It's similar to the way they view womanhood, not something to be respected, something to appropriate, something to own.

Deliriumoftheendless · 23/12/2020 09:15

Haven’t any of these idiots seen Misery?

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 23/12/2020 09:17

who has to wrestle with an intense feeling of not-belonging and being a disgusting, third-rate, fake woman

Loads of women feel like this, some occasionally, some frequently, some all the time...some never obviously

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/12/2020 09:20

Male feelings are not my responsibility, any more than these people obviously care about my feelings.

Perhaps the problem lies more with the people who've misguidedly built up the idea in these male people that they are any kind of woman and they should be validated as such by the world at all times. They are not. It's not a value judgement. They're not inferior to women as humans. Just male.

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 23/12/2020 09:41

It's like a tick box exercise in casual (and not so casual) misogyny. You have to admire these types for having such faith in their progressive credentials, while trotting out the same old sexist shit:

  • The abuse didn't really happen.
  • She cares about her appearance so therefore frivolous.
  • Her writing isn't that good anyway, some serious men said so.
  • How dare she take legal action to protect her work, only mean women do that.
  • Doesn't she know that she's not as important as the fans (silly woman), so she should stop having an opinion on the books she wrote.
  • acknowledges that she was the victim of a stalker but has goes on to deride her for wanting to make her world feel safe. Women's fears not valid, you see.
  • Comfortably centre left (I.e. rich white woman who only cares about her own interests)