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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Andy Wightman has resigned from the Scottish Greens

101 replies

cremuel · 18/12/2020 14:19

Because of the intolerance around sex and gender issues. Not too much of a surprise - I think he’s always been pretty gender critical but fighting to keep his mouth shut because he feels he has really important work to do. But the Scottish Greens make it more or less impossible to be in the party if you don’t cheerlead every single accepted view. His loss is a real blow to Scottish politics. I’m so angry with the SGP for chasing him out.

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nancywhisky · 18/12/2020 16:00

and now the Guardian...

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/12/2020 16:03

Some BBC bloke tweeted it and framed it as "over trans rights".

nancywhisky · 18/12/2020 16:04

and just been reported on Radio Scotland news.

well well.

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2020 16:07

Front page BBC

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-55361550

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2020 16:07
  • well, that might be BBC in Scotland!
Original poster
cremuel · 18/12/2020 16:10

Yes. But he's also getting a lot of supportive comments.

I know. Mostly from people not in the SGP I’m guessing - including a lot of people who were but left for similar reasons. Great to see the support - must not let myself get wound up ..!

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/12/2020 16:11

That's quite a good report. Hope it makes it onto the main BBC page.

Original poster
cremuel · 18/12/2020 16:11

With the PR system in the Scottish Parliament he could possibly be elected as an independent. I hope he chooses to stand.

It is possible and it’s been done, but the list system makes it really difficult. I’d love to see him do it.

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ArabellaScott · 18/12/2020 16:13

Well, I've recovered a bit of my respect for him, at least.

He has done such great and valuable work on land reform, it was an enormous disappointment when he bottled out over the Edinburgh meeting.

Original poster
cremuel · 18/12/2020 16:17

I’ve had to leave a WhatsApp group where colleagues are lamenting about how misguided he is and how a lot of people just don’t understand the issue very deeply. Andy Wightman is one of the most considered and thoughtful politicians we have. The idea that he would have left the party and caused all this furore for an issue he hadn’t really thought about that much is so infuriating. But lots of confused cognitive dissonance because they all love him and can’t understand how he can be so wrong on this ...

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ArabellaScott · 18/12/2020 16:24

It's that question again, isn't it:

'how on earth can so many principled, intelligent, courageous people who have worked so hard for justice and equality all their lives suddenly become overnight bigots'

I presume the woke think that either:

  1. They've been paid by these mysterious far-right Xtian US groups that are suppose to be funding us all (still waiting for that cheque, btw)

or

  1. They were bigots all along and have now at last like a James Bond villain revealed their monstrous wickedness after suppressing it for decades and pretending to be all caring and progressive

or

  1. They have been kidnapped and locked in a cellar and brainwashed by the cult of Mumsnet and viperised against their will?
vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 18/12/2020 16:32

I wrote to him about the bill, he's one of my list MSPs.

He sent me a long email - he explained why he couldn't support the bill, but he did it in a way that showed he had considered the issues. My impression is that he was conflicted about it all.

I hope he's ok. He's a good politician. Patrick Harvie is an idiot to have lost him.

And, as for Alex Cole Hamilton, he's a man who understands how the inclusion issues impact on women and he just doesn't care enough about women to protect us.

Original poster
cremuel · 18/12/2020 16:41

I actually don’t think he’s been conflicted about gender issues at all. What I think he’s been conflicted about is how much to keep quiet on this in order to maintain the SGP platform to pursue his really important work on land reform. I think he’s shut up on many occasions when he’d have liked to speak out because the benefit he’d get by doing that (minimal) wouldn’t outweigh the cost (losing his platform to work in really important issues). But they pushed him too far, and I guess being forced to vote against that bill was just too much for him to square with his integrity. I really feel for him, it’s a difficult position to be in. I kind of wish he’d voted for the amendment and made them chuck him out.

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Defaultname · 18/12/2020 16:59

Colnservative MSP Annie Wells has tweeted "I appreciate it was a tough decision for you, Andy. All the best for the future!". Which will be another mark against him!

OllyBJolly · 18/12/2020 17:02

That's quite a good report

Would it not have been so much more powerful if headline had been about the importance of open discussion and debate or even women's rights? It's so misleading to talk about "anti-trans". I've yet to come across anyone who objects to the direction of travel who is anti-trans. They are pro-women and girls - not transphobic, not anti anything. I've met more transwomen in the "gender critical" movement than I have in the rest of my 60 years of life.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/12/2020 17:08

Yes I completely agree, my expectations were rock bottom though!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/12/2020 17:15

The tone of the pieces in the Guardian and BBC is surprising. It's all about how he is a well respected MP, nothing about his horrifically transphobic views which is a nice change.

It's interesting, it's obvious both pieces are trying to take a carefully neutral tone, yet one side seems completely bonkers.

Great to see some sunlight midwinter...

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2020 17:16

it's obvious both pieces are trying to take a carefully neutral tone, yet one side seems completely bonkers.

oh really how strange wonder why that is

Grellbunt · 18/12/2020 17:25

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Some BBC bloke tweeted it and framed it as "over trans rights".
.... to override rape victims‘ desire for a female examiner

Is the bit they don’t add

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 18/12/2020 17:33

And now Mridhul Wadhwa has left the SNP joined the Greens Grin They will do very well there. I'm very happy to have all the TRAs corralled into one party with no power (although I mourn the death of the Greens as they once were.

ArabellaScott · 18/12/2020 17:43

Me, too, ItsAll, but if they do insist on purity politics and deliberately alienating all women, then so be it. And if it means all the TRAs gravitating out of the larger parties and into the more niche ones I suppose it will make things a lot easier all round.

BlackForestCake · 18/12/2020 17:46

Surely the Greens will now have to put Wadhwa at the top of the party list? “Centring the most oppressed" and all that?

Sexnotgender · 18/12/2020 17:47

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

And now Mridhul Wadhwa has left the SNP joined the Greens Grin They will do very well there. I'm very happy to have all the TRAs corralled into one party with no power (although I mourn the death of the Greens as they once were.
I saw that. Interesting.
vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 18/12/2020 17:49

Mridhul still can't stand as Mridhul doesn't have a GRC, though?

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