LGBT Youth Scotland school trans training

[NeurotrashWarrior]

I’ve just come across a transcript for the LGBT Youth transgender training for schools and am rather agog at the implications of some of this stuff.

[[https://twitter.com/forwomenscot/status/1338064300984987648?s=21]]

Blog with the transcript:

[[https://forwomen.scot/13/12/2020/george-watsons-college-staff-transgender-training]]/

It’s all about pushing affirmation and doing so behind parents’ backs where they don’t affirm, labelling them “unsupportive” and backing this up with evidence of the difference in stats on suicide etc of they’re supportive. (From ‘soon to be published non statutory government guidance,’ see slide below.)

Lots on assuring access to different facilities for "safety" ( a gender neutral loo is discussed and has apparently failed as was taken over by some boys.)

Hiding info from parents:

“If a pupil asks you to use a different pronoun, that’s also okay. I think it’s important to like re-engage in conversations. Just remember that if you’re not, if this isn’t happening at home, I want to make sure you are getting the support that you need. So for instance, parents teacher like interviews, you know, is it safe for me to use this name and this pronoun, you know, in front of your parents in that situation. And if it’s not, you know, reverting, I’m gonna have to use your old name or your old pronoun in that situation.”

A staff member asks for more info on affirmation:

“Okay. Em, yeah, thank you so much for that, that was really helpful. I think, particularly the information about the social transition, I’ve never really heard that term before. So that’s quite, that was really useful. And yeah, I’d be really keen to hear more about that affirmative approach, so if that was something, maybe in the future we could possibly like, arrange, and but what, if you could send out the slides, I can pass that around to everyone.”

[Message from MNHQ: Image contains a reference to suicide]

The guidance referred to which WGiS found breached the human rights of girls 11 times and was then withdrawn because ministers felt it was "not legal".

"We have a Supporting Transgender Young People in Schools guidance, which has a child’s plan within that document, which might be worth having a look at if anyone is dealing with this. And it’s, basically just lays out a sequence of events that a school can undertake to support a trans pupil. I think I can say this, so I’m going to say it now. But that particular guide is soon to be Scottish Government guidance, which is really exciting. So it’s going to be non statutory guidance for schools on supporting trans pupils, and hoping that will be released by the end of the year. So that should also provide schools with some really clear and explicit information about what’s expected from the Scottish Government. And that’s based off the current guidance that we have on our website."

Someone asks about the recent Scottish parliament advice around watchful waiting (see image below) and the reply is all about "persistent and insistent" (despite the long spiel about the trans umbrella and non binary etc) and especially among neuro diverse pupils.

But in terms of what we typically talk about is, and actually it’s on this slide, I think, persistent and insistent. If a young person, particularly around neurodiverse, young people, if there’s a persistence and an insistence around their trans or non-binary identity, then that’s something that we need to acknowledge and listen to. In terms of, you know, affirming a person’s gender identity, I can’t necessarily answer that because I don’t know, you know, specific situations. But if the young person is persistent and insistent around their gender identity, then that’s something that yeah, we need to listen to. I’m afraid I don’t have time to like fully go into that, because I’d love to also hear a bit more about what Scottish Parliament is saying.

As someone who has had someone close to them kill themselves in the manner suggested ‘if you don’t have supportive parents’ - I think the ‘helpful’ picture of how to do it is breaking all sorts of Samaritans guidelines. Surely it is suggestive and irresponsible?

How do they get to the figures too?

Also, as we have sadly seen from the news today, trans children can have multiple mental health issues that ultimately mean they take their own lives. How you separate those issues out would be near impossible.

Who made this and thought a cheerful cartoon noose was appropriate?

Zanda,

The noose... oh my word.

I despair. The dumbing down of discussion - wow. The serious nature of these issues, and yet the transcript reads like a group of teenagers talking about some random crap. In the scramble to make absolutely everything in life “engaging” and “fun” it appears that as a society we are losing sight of the distance and objectivity required to discuss serious issues.

Zanda, I’m sorry for your loss. This kind of thing must be very difficult to see. The flippancy with which they treat all of this disgusts me.

But if the young person is persistent and insistent around their gender identity, then that’s something that yeah, we need to listen to. I’m afraid I don’t have time to like fully go into that

Convenient

Zanda me too, very recently. That has made me so upset. Hideous and utterly wrong, I am furious.

I'm so sorry for your losses zanda and sirvix

I'll ask for a warning to be added.

I believe for some weird reason pupils attended this. I've no words for how appalling this is.

I'm so sorry Zanda and SirVix. This, like so much of the narrative around trans children is utterly irresponsible. I don't understand why there isn't more widespread condemnation of the suicide narrative in the press, as well as from specialist organisations. The media guidelines for the reporting of suicide by the Samaritans are really clear about what not to include, this organisation, but also many others, including those that specialise in dealing with children and young adults, are getting it wrong on a number of counts. The trans movement really has overturned the much more careful approach which used to be generally accepted as sensible.

That noose! I lost a friend to hanging years ago. They really don't give a shit.

I’m so sorry Zanda . The use of the noose is utterly appalling.

Re persistence and insistence, the accompanying slide actually says: “Trans identities can begin in early childhood: ‘persistent and insistent’ “ This is pretty much a bastardisation of the Dutch Protocol and studies showing that up to 80% of young children who exhibit gender distress will desist by puberty. It can’t be applied to the current cohort of adolescent girls who are experiencing gender distress for a multitude of reasons.

There’s no definition for persistent and insistent either- how long is “persistent”? A couple of weeks? A couple of months? A couple of years? All while being affirmed by the school, presumably given that the training tells teachers to affirm from the moment they are told. So is persistency influenced by the school?

The utterly irresponsible statistics come from 84 participants in the Trans Pulse project here: transpulseproject.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Impacts-of-Strong-Parental-Support-for-Trans-Youth-vFINAL.pdf

It uses chain-referral sampling where each participant was able to recruit up to three others so the numbers of clusters could be as small as 21 here. The participants ranged from 16-24 in age but that’s all we know about them. We don’t know sex breakdown, any mental health issues, family environment, how long they have identified as trans etc. A fair number appear to be homeless/in insecure housing, but we don’t know the factors leading up to this. We don’t know how “unsupportive” is defined.

The suicide attempt statistics go against the recent IPSO guidelines around the use of similar statistics by Mermaids and are especially shocking given that it appears pupils were present for the training session. It’s utterly irresponsible of LGBTYS to be using these stats.

There is a great deal of focus on “unsupportive parents”. This would appear to be parents who are more cautious and want to follow watchful waiting. One slide talks about schools creating a “safe space” where pupils have “unsupportive” parents. It all flies in the face of basic safeguarding and just creates parental alienation- what a message to give pupils. Your parents won’t affirm you, don’t worry, we will. We won’t tell them and we’ll make school a safe affirming space for you. How on earth does that help what are very vulnerable adolescents who need proper support not blind affirmation.

There are 16 Councils across Scotland that endorse the LGBTYS guidelines. I would say that parents ought to contact their school and ask whether they affirm pupils behind parents’ backs but this training session shows that teachers are clearly told to lie so could a school be believed if they say they don’t?

At least now what these organisations say behind closed doors is fully public.

Oh, and the woman who head the TransPulse project recently said:

“ “The increase may look steep, but we have to remember that these are still very small numbers in the context of the number of youth who know they’re trans and will need gender-affirming medical care,” said epidemiologist Greta Bauer, who holds the CIHR chair in sex and gender science at Western University.

She said research by the Trans Pulse project she headed suggests that about one in every 278 14-year-olds is trans and requires gender-affirming hormones — far more than even the elevated numbers seen now.“

nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadas-teen-transgender-treatment-boom-life-saving-services-or-dangerous-experimentation

Why is the work of someone who is clearly pushing the medicalisation of gender distressed/dysphoric youths being used by LGBTYS?

Bloody hell, the irresponsible use of those stats from Canada and their context.

There's a serious lack of awareness of safeguarding going on as well as any ability to think critically.

The insistence and persistent stuff is at complete odds with earlier in the talk; loads of gumpf about the trans umbrella and non binary. Cis is celebrated as an excellent word to describe anyone who is conforming, as basically everyone else is trans. Teens are both rebelling and also tribing up with mates, copying each other (and yes yp with autism do too).

This training is unbelievably naive and downright dangerous.

As pp have noted elsewhere, strong correlations to the type of strategies used in extremism, alienation etc.

Wasn’t the man who was head of this... um, didn’t he get into a bit of bother with the law?

I can’t get over the casual “fun” little drawing of the noose. People don’t “attempt” suicide in this way, they very effectively kill themselves. They are showing this to pupils ?

It’s very childlike though isn’t it? Like a young teens scribblings on the back of their algebra jotter..

FYI this is an independent school

If I was paying fees there I’d be livid

But I don’t know what their duties under the general law are

If it was my local authority I’d be straight in there citing their various statutory duties

To what extent do parents know about what is being taught?

I don’t think they do u less the specifically ask.

I can’t get over the casual “fun” little drawing of the noose. People don’t “attempt” suicide in this way, they very effectively kill themselves. They are showing this to pupils ?

Absolutely appalling. And you make a very important point. The use of this image suggests completed suicides.

I hope this doesn’t mean they are going into lots of schools. I am mulling over an FOI to find out if anything is planned for our Local Authority area.

James Rennie was chief of LGBTYS and also a member of a paedophile ring, as reported here in the Guardian. (Content warning, abuse, csa, highly upsetting)

www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/07/scottish-paedophile-ring-guilty-child-abuse

I actually don't understand why this organisation wasn't disbanded after Rennie's conviction. He was the first chief exec and presumably shaped the organisation from the beginning. Even if you bring in new staff and try to redo the whole thing from the ground up, I just don't think a reputable org could recover from something like that.

Far better to scrap it entirely and start again, imo.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_Youth_Scotland

Grellbunt They go into lots of schools. The list of Councils that endorse their guidance is on page 58 here:

lgbtyouth.org.uk/media/1344/supporting-transgender-young-people.pdf