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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Student Sex Work Toolkit for Staff in Higher Education is being launched this week!

28 replies

stumbledin · 13/12/2020 20:13

The Aims of this Toolkit are to Outline:
• An overview of student sex work and key issues this group face
• The legal status of sex work in the UK
• How to offer appropriate support to student sex workers
• Relevant local and national support services for sex workers in the UK
www.swrh.co.uk/student-sex-work-toolkit-for-staff-in-higher-education.html

Join this Culture Shift webinar with University of Leicester to launch their new Student Sex Worker Policy and Toolkit - 15 December www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/launching-university-of-leicesters-student-sex-worker-policy-and-toolkit-tickets-131610353109

Seems to be heavily influenced by ECP - English Collective of Prostitutes and National Ugly Mugs reportandsupport.le.ac.uk/support/student-sex-work

Maybe this is already going on in other universities.

OP posts:
HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 13/12/2020 20:16

Hi Stumbled, some discussion about it here as Sarah Ditum was talking about it on Woman's Hour. Thanks for flagging up the event.

Sarah Ditum discusses student sex work with Jane Garvey on Woman's Hour www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4103822-sarah-ditum-discusses-student-sex-work-with-jane-garvey-on-woman-s-hour

OhHolyJesus · 13/12/2020 20:20

Pretty sure that there is a Mermaids Trustee from Ugly Mugs...sorry as you were...

I listened to Women's Hour OP and was horrified. I will read but am sure to continue to be horrified. University the 2020 version.

OneEpisode · 13/12/2020 20:33

I think 14% of the UK student population is disabled? Their survey found “student sex workers” and “Over 70% identified as Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual or Queer with over half describing themselves as having a disability”

goldenharvest · 13/12/2020 20:48

Heard this on woman's hour. I mean WTAF are they thinking.

anotherhumanfemale · 13/12/2020 21:02

There was a big FB discussion about the WH piece. Lots of people thinking that the idea of almost promoting sex work to students was awful. Which was rather refreshing!

hoodathunkit · 13/12/2020 23:48

apologies for the post and run but I'm exhausted with an early morning tomorrow

While I do not see eye to eye with many posters her re the sex work issue (I think it is nuanced and complex) I am extremely concerned about some of the astroturfing occuring around the issues of sex workers rights and safety.

I have serious concerns about this toolkit (one of many toolkits I have concern about) and about the recruiting of students into sex work.

Pushed for time but I just wanted to share something that readers might be interested in - a video featuring various protestors from the Crossroads Womens Centre - home of the ECP

The banners from Women Against Rape and Global Women's Strike are clearly visible - this is not the only video or the only event that is relevant but it will do for now

The video is of a protest outside the UK Family Courts and is part of a wider protest movement that fed into the "Save the Children" protests that featured many references to Qanon, Pizzagate and Stand Up X and promoted conspiracy theories about children being "snatched" and "stolen" by Social Services, satanic ritual abuse and child trafficking.

The speaker addressing the protest is the notorious fake police whistleblower Jon Wedger. Wedger's claims have been widely debunked by real police whistleblowers. Wedger has been begging for money via various crowdfunding platforms but there are no records as to where the money has gone.

One of Wedger's close associates, the anti-abortion activist Wilfred Wong (Wong claims that abortions are satanic ritual abuse) is currently on remand facing charges of kidnapping an 8 year old child at knifepoint.

It gets complicated as Wedger has also been involved in promoting conspiracy theories around grooming gangs and has been supported by a range of far right groups in this respect.

I know that grooming gangs exist and are real. I know that there are real cults that sexually abuse children. I understand that the Family Courts may sometimes make mistakes.

However the activities of the likes of the Crossroads Womens Centre and Jon Wedger in relation to these delicate and important issues are not helpful IMO. They create smokescreens that obscure real abuses and leave well meaning people confused as to what is true and what is false.

for example, one of the speakers adressing the protest, and receiving wild applause, was Samantha Baldwin

read about her here
www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/850370/mother-samantha-baldwin-who-went-missing-with-her-two-sons-drugged-them-and-made-up-claims-they-were-sexually-abused-by-their-dad/

I do not know who all the speakers were but on the basis of Wedger's and Baldwin's involvement I would suggest that a skeptical position may be helpful.

I just wanted to share about this protest as it may throw some light on the ECP / Crossroads Women's Centre link.

There are other links - for example via trade unions, that are also worth checking out - I will post as soon as I am able.

hoodathunkit · 14/12/2020 00:08

an earlier protest by the Crossroads Women's Centre with the banners and women more clearly visible

I think it is important to at least notice some of the network connections.

The English Collective of Prostitutes is one of a number of front organisations of the Crossroads Women's Centre (known to many readers here as cult like).

I find it ironic that they protest against what they claim are abuses against women whilst promoting a sex work "toolkit" to students.

If the "toolkit" was kept to advise students who disclosed involvment in sex work I might have fewer concerns about it. I used to, at one point, as part of my job, distribute Ugly Mugs lists to women working on the streets. I do not have a problem with people using a harm reduction approach when working with vulnerable and exploited polulations.

I do have a problem with the toolkit being "launched" via a Culture Shift webinar as it seems to be promoting sex work. I may have problems with the toolkit itself - no time to check it out right now

I will post more on the connections to the trade unions and other groups when I have moment

stumbledin · 14/12/2020 00:24

hoodathunkit - thanks for that info

Crossroads Women's Centre is the "hub" of all the groups that used to be part of the Wages for Housework Campaign, long known and remembered for the way it infiltrated Women's Liberation groups with the intention of co-opting them to their view point.

There have been a few articles "exposing" them but have long been a firm favourite of liberal journalism because of their link to Selma James. The means that their feminism is based on a class analysis (not sex class, but class as in working, middle class etc.)

They have always promoted the sex work is work, and poor women have not choice, but have never campaigned or organised to get poor women better work with better pay.

WfH gradually lost the name and re-emerged as part of Global Women's Strike. And in a sense Sisters Uncut is a sort of tribute group to them. They dont appear to do much, but manage to gatecrash other groups events to get credit (the headlines). They even manged to infiltrate Greenham Common with dire consequences.

However, even though I find them dubious and dont like their politics, I very much doubt that a group whose basis is Marxist and against the corrupt corporitised US state, would attach themselves to QAnon.

In fact this may be a case when 2 very different groups, both intent on coopting a genuine protest, managed to end up looking as though they were part of the same thing.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/international-womens-day-wages-housework-care-selma-james-a9385351.html

Not forgetting that many on mumsnet joined in the condemnation of Cuties that was in fact started by QAnon, and until than time had passed release and distribution withough much notice until Netflix misadvertised it and QAnon coat tailed the reaction.

This is a list of the groups based at the Crossroads Women's Centre crossroadswomen.net/groups although more often than not it is the same 3 women who turn up as spokespersons for them!

But as an interesting historical footnote, there was always a rumour that WfH was in fact a CIA front to cause disinformation and disunity in what was the WLM.

OP posts:
hoodathunkit · 14/12/2020 00:35

They even manged to infiltrate Greenham Common with dire consequences.

Yellow Gate IMMIC?

However, even though I find them dubious and dont like their politics, I very much doubt that a group whose basis is Marxist and against the corrupt corporitised US state, would attach themselves to QAnon.

The interesting thing is that many Marxists have promoted conspiracy theories about SRA that laid the foundations for Qanon, for example Beatrix Campbell was one of the main promoters here in the UK. Campbell has never promoted Qanon itself but her bizarre beliefs definitely contributed to the conspiracy theory. This is a huge and complex issue and I can post more later

But as an interesting historical footnote, there was always a rumour that WfH was in fact a CIA front to cause disinformation and disunity in what was the WLM.

Yes, I remember that rumour from back in the day. It seems to me that these groups can and do get infiltrated by state actors, possibly by more than one state actor at any time. I doubt that its the CIA pulling the strings now.

The Crossroads Womens Centre have become quite enamoured of conspiracy theories of late

xxyzz · 14/12/2020 01:05

Why do you think there is a big gulf between the far left and far right? Both share many of the same conspiracy theories, often from the same sites, and leaders move seamlessly from one to the other, such as Clare Fox.

As a Jew, I am well aware that many Corbynites share anti-Semitic material from far right sites; David Dukes duly endorsed Corbyn.

It's the horseshoe, or really circle, theory.

DidoLamenting · 14/12/2020 01:47

Interesting thread but I must go to bed

I'm very disturbed by anything which normalises prostitution.

WorriedForWomen · 14/12/2020 10:23

This is from the staff toolkit:

Don’t:
 Break the confidence of students regarding sex work involvement.
 Write information about specific student sex workers in files, discuss their occupations in
broader student related staff meetings, or raise this in front of other people.
 Involve the police, even if this is done with the best intentions. The police are often
involved in the harassment, arrest and deportation of sex workers.
 Make assumptions regarding involvement or motivations. Each person should be treated
as an individual with varying needs.
 Ask details about their work unless the student has asked for specific help regarding
this.
 Make assumptions about drug involvement, or the student’s personal life.
 Assume the student wants to leave the sex industry.
 Try to ‘save’ student sex workers - always prioritise a harm reduction approach.

Although there's sense to some of this, some of the blanket "don't"s are, in my opinion, deeply irresponsible. Surely "think carefully before involving police", for instance? What if you think someone's being stalked/is at serious risk from a client? And that final one - "always" go for "harm reduction"? (i.e., support student to carry on doing the work - but be really careful about sharing your personal phone number kids!)

I get that we need to listen to young women who find this empowering. But also, how many women have you known who've been in abusive relationships but who've defended them massively at the time? Only to realise later how damaging they were?

This needs publicising - because you can bet on Leicester pulling this if it means parents tell their kids not to go there (with all the financial implications that has for the institution).

WorriedForWomen · 14/12/2020 10:25

How many women who were involved in sex work as students would want the same for their daughters, I wonder?

WorriedForWomen · 14/12/2020 10:38

As a whole, it's massively biased towards facilitation/encouragement, with almost no consideration of when/if it might be best to get out of this line of work (and how to support THIS course of action).

For example, look at the list of staff "do"s. In it, there's "DO: Offer practical solution-oriented guidance. For example, students may want advice on how to balance their professional work and studies."

What about adding "Alternatively, the student may benefit from discussion about how this work is affecting her (or him), what led her (or him) into it, and what alternative courses of action she (or he) could be supported in taking"?

Babdoc · 14/12/2020 16:43

Anything that normalises prostitution is disgusting. A university is in loco parentis for its younger students- it has no business facilitating the sexual abuse of under eighteens or passively encouraging the sexist exploitation of over eighteens.
Prostitution is paid rape and there is absolutely no reason for any student to resort to it.
My DDs supplemented their allowance at uni by taking legitimate jobs - waiting tables, flyering, bar work, etc. Their unis both had hardship funds for students with financial difficulties.
The only involvement any uni should have in prostitution is working to keep their students out of it, or rescuing them from it.

hoodathunkit · 15/12/2020 11:06

Thank you for the helpful post WorriedForWomen

I am pushed for time and it is very helpful to have the information in your post to hand.

So the "toolkit" is actually guidelines for student support workers in higher education settings

I do not have a problem, in principal for helpful advice to be given to student support workers, however having read the information in your post I share your concern 100% especially regarding the guidance to not contact the police regarding safeguading concerns.

Of course sometimes well meaning people can make things worse for vulnerable and exploited, trafficked people by calling the police. I have bitter personal experience of this happening.

However to just advise against contacting the police is outrageous without a just off the top of my head, advice on identifying signs of trafficking, exploitation and coercive control and advice on contacting specialist charities and organisations that support trafficked women.

I am also very concerned about students being encouraged to contact various sex worker unions, "sex worker empowerment" and sex worker rights organisations, such as the ECP, when many such groups have multiple network connections to cultic / conspiracy theorist and other networks of serious concern.

This raises the possibility that vulnerable students will be referred to a controversial group and may, as a result, end up involved in Qanon and anti-vaxx conspiracy theorists and may become human assets in a disinformation campaign that harms vulnerable people, our country and the world.

apologies for posting in haste

hoodathunkit · 01/01/2021 16:01

stumbledin

You seem well educated and informed in relation to the Crossroads Women's Centre / Global Women's Strike and their various activities and tentacles

I just wanted to share something important about them and an organisation in which they are very involved

The Counselling and Psychotherapy Union

So many scary rabbit holes leading from this, just for starters, some of the CPU's recent fabebook posts are as follows

Psychotherapy and Counselling Union
15 December at 05:32 ·
From our colleagues from the English Collective of Prostitutes - International Day to End Violence Against Sex Workers - 17 December 2020, 5pm - Women from Hull and Mayfair on their similar struggles against poverty, violence and criminalisation.

www.facebook.com/PsychotherapyandCounsellingUnion/posts/1569884679879058

Psychotherapy and Counselling Union
11 December at 01:15 ·
From our colleagues of Legal Action for Women
We thought you might be interested in this documentary about women in the US having their children removed after they suffered domestic violence. It has a lot of parallels with what happens here. Some time ago Women Against Rape (part of SNS) spoke at its UK premiere, together with the filmmaker Rachel Meyrick.
For Global Health Film – tickets and other details
GLOBALHEALTHFILM.ORG
What Doesn't Kill Me (2017)
Live event Saturday 05 December 14:30 GMT

www.facebook.com/PsychotherapyandCounsellingUnion/posts/1566487346885458

Psychotherapy and Counselling Union
10 December at 02:10 ·
ABOUT CHRISTMAS ASYLUM APPEAL 2020
This annual appeal is for destitute women and children in the All African Women's Group (AAWG), the self-help group of women asylum seekers based at the Crossroads Women’s Centre. The appeal is run by Legal Action for Women (LAW) also based at the Centre, Each year the funds raised have ensured that women have some money in their hands to cover essentials over the holiday period when they are without the usual support through the Centre, and there is less other help around. With benefit of match funding, the goal is to provide women a one-off payment comparable to one weeks’ worth of benefits. Last year we helped 50 women, over half of whom also had children.
Crossroads Women. Donate at

www.facebook.com/PsychotherapyandCounsellingUnion/posts/1565667930300733

Psychotherapy and Counselling Union
16 November ·
Each year between November 13 – 19, people and organizations around the country participate in Transgender Awareness Week to help raise the visibility about transgender people and address issues members of the community face.
The week before Transgender Day of Remembrance on November 20, people and organizations around the country participate in Transgender Awareness Week to help raise the visibility of transgender people and address issues members of the community face.
Transgender Day of Remembrance (TDOR), is an annual observance on November 20 that honors the memory of the transgender people whose lives were lost in acts of anti-transgender violence that year.
What is Transgender Awareness Week?
Transgender Awareness Week is a week when transgender people and their allies take action to bring attention to the community by educating the public about who transgender people are, sharing stories and experiences, and advancing advocacy around the issues of prejudice, discrimination, and violence that affect the transgender community.
What is Transgender Day of Remembrance?
Transgender Day of Remembrance (TDOR) was founded by transgender advocate Gwendolyn Ann Smith as a vigil to honor her memory of Rita Hester, a transgender woman who was killed in 1998. The vigil commemorated all the transgender people lost to violence that year and began an important memorial that has become the annual Transgender Day of Remembrance.
Participate in TDOR by attending or organizing a vigil on November 20 to honor all those whose lives were lost to anti-transgender violence that year. Vigils are typically hosted by local transgender advocates or LGBTQ organizations, and held at community centers, parks, places of worship and other venues. The vigil often involves reading a list of the names of those who died that year.

www.facebook.com/PsychotherapyandCounsellingUnion/posts/1545110525689807

Psychotherapy and Counselling Union
9 November ·
Our colleagues from the English Collective of Prostitutes asked to share their activity.
www.facebook.com/PsychotherapyandCounsellingUnion/posts/1538284586372401

It seems quite apparent to me that the Counselling and Psychotherapy Union, ostensibly a trade union for counsellors and psychotherapists that will offer support and protection to members facing complaints, is closely associated with, of not actually a front organisation for, Global Women's Strike / Crossroads Women's Centre

What can it all mean?

hoodathunkit · 01/01/2021 16:07

The Counselling and Psychotherapy Union is quite a secretive group. Most pages on its website are set to private and are accessible only to its members.

Their "Campaigns" page is accessible and interesting for a mental health related union.

The campaigns listed are as follows:

Paid Work Campaign – challenging the tide of voluntary posts across sectors.

NHS Campaign – challenge growing privatisation and one-size fits all therapies. Give the voice back to the practitioners.

Influencing the Government Campaign - support and defend therapy from attacks from government and media. Including creeping medicalisation and one-size fits all therapies. Increasing the influence of practitioners, rather than top down influence.

Recruiting and Educating Trainees Campaign - educational role of PCU in training; challenging the system where trainees work unpaid; recruiting trainees to PCU.

Task Group Against Intersectional Discrimination - challenge structural issues of intersectional discrimination in our profession that maintain and perpetuate power over marginalised groups. Our first goal is to challenge the perpetuation of inequality that is grounded in racism / kneenecking within the recruitment, training, delivery of services in the psychotherapy and counselling profession including the workplace and Union.

Against Prevent Campaign – this is an already established campaign group, challenging the Prevent Bill in its erosion of civil liberties and the ethical values of therapists.

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20201021110527/www.psychotherapyandcounsellingunion.co.uk/campaigns" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20201021110527/www.psychotherapyandcounsellingunion.co.uk/campaigns

I had to laugh at the "creeping medicalisation" bit. By that I think they mean those pesky scientifically informed, evidence based therapies that don't involve yoni massage and the like

hoodathunkit · 01/01/2021 16:17

An extremely interesting archival film of the work and perspectives of the Global Women's Strike

I strongly recommend this for readers with curious / analytical minds seeking clues as to the historic roots of the interesting times we live in today

hoodathunkit · 01/01/2021 19:30

Not forgetting that many on mumsnet joined in the condemnation of Cuties that was in fact started by QAnon, and until than time had passed release and distribution withough much notice until Netflix misadvertised it and QAnon coat tailed the reaction.

I missed this bit when I read it before

I am not sure I understand it and would very much like to understand what you mean.

There is no individual Qanon. Various people raised concern about Cuties. I have not seen the film but have read accounts ranging from people saying it is exploitative and inappropriate through to accounts saying that it is critical of the sexualisation of children but was marketed by Netflix in an inappropriate way. In fact I think Netflix was rightly criticised and many unsubscribed over exactly this isssue yes?

WombOfOnesOwn · 01/01/2021 19:36

I saw Cuties. It verged on softcore child pornography in several scenes. I could not believe the director had to choose to film it in the way she did (or with scenes a la a girl putting her mouth on a condom in full close up and blowing it up like a balloon).

SapatSea · 21/07/2021 12:22

The University of Leicester Student Sexwork (God, how depressing and wrong is that) Toolkit and Policy document is about to be rolled out to other Unis and Higher Education institutions.

Read more here: nordicmodelnow.org/2021/05/01/whats-wrong-with-the-leicester-student-sex-worker-policy-and-toolkit/

There is also a petition asking for the toolkit and policy to be revoked:
www.change.org/p/university-of-leicester-revoke-the-university-of-leicester-student-sex-work-policy-and-toolkits

Comingoutfighting · 21/07/2021 15:14

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PickUpAPepper · 21/07/2021 22:08

Very very brief review of Uni funding over the last few decades: in the baby boomer years, female students become more common after fighting for the right to Uni education since late 1800s, and all students were mostly fully funded to go to Uni and could also claim benefits over the summer months. They were forbidden from getting jobs, I think. In the 80s they were still fully funded, with maintenance grants. In the 90s the maintenance grants were replaced with loans. Then tuition fees started as well, and loans were extended to cover those. Under the Lib Dem coalition, fees were raised to 9k a year, and our youngsters were saddled with lifelong debts for the privilege of training for jobs that pay little more than minimum wage in the case of childcare, or £25k in health and teaching.

Now female students are to get saddled with the normalisation of sex work as well as that huge debt.

What next? University-operated brothels opening right next to the childcare centres? How is this progressive, how is this even legal? What are the useless unions saying?

NiceGerbil · 23/07/2021 03:14

I find all this really awful.

The existence of a toolkit which will have taken time and resources to write means that

They accept/ assume that there will be enough students doing this to warrant a toolkit

And that the main thing is to essentially support them to do their job.

Will read the Leicester one now