Retired prison governor on transwomen in women's prisons

[ArabellaScott]

Rhona Hotchkiss writing in Centre for Crime and Justice Studies - 'we need open discussion'.

'As the governor in charge of women’s prisons in Scotland, I became increasingly dismayed at the rising numbers of transwomen in the estate and incidents related to their behaviour and this relative disregard for the impact on women’s mental and physical well-being.

There were numerous incidents over the course of a few years of inappropriate sexualised and aggressive behaviour and threats towards women by transwomen, and I have been told of others by concerned colleagues, prisoners and ex-prisoners. These incidents often caused real distress, and in women with serious mental health issues, outright confusion'

www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/resources/we-need-open-discussion-welfare-women-prison?fbclid=IwAR3jinUDqlSkA3NlnNddaSQ_YfwMfYsggIDnHaSK7x6hHzxWEFbHNvvxRgw

Sometimes I want to jump up and down in frustration.

The very concept of transferring male criminals, including sex offenders, to a female prison, because they say they're not men, is too, too absurd.

I don't know anyone can even contemplate such a ridiculous thing.

The fact that we have to actually point out the problem, is bad enough. The fact that we have to keep doing it, because no one cares, is breathtaking.

Thank god for women like Rhona.

Things have gone further in Canada than in the UK. Anyone watching this is likely to immediately grasp the problem:

fairplayforwomen.com/why-female-inmate-suing-government-transgender-prisoners/

There is a judicial review

It shouldn’t even need saying that male inmates never go in women’s prisons

Those who support TWAW must then think trans men are men and put trans men in a male prison, surely?!

Heather Mason is a strong, brave and very knowledgeable woman - thoroughly recommend that interview.

She has agreed to work with us to produce a page on Canada for our website.

Why on earth should 'transwomen' be put in the female estate? It sounds like the prison service's only criterion is 'a male who wants to be housed with women'.

Those who support TWAW must then think trans men are men and put trans men in a male prison, surely?!

Nope. It's crazy making, isn't it?

That video that Nauticant posted is just jaw-dropping. How is it possible to believe that it is a good idea that males who have raped and murdered women and girls should be transferred into low risk female prisons?!

vivarium - there are little over 300 women in prison in Scotland.

This means that there are around 4 times the amount of transwomen in prison in Scotland as there are women, can this be right? If so, this is not the odd, isolated case, is it?! This is women's prisons three-quarters full of males who identify as women.

Someone tell me I've got the maths wrong, please.

Just want to support the view that this argument is a lot easier to win than the toilets argument - the thing is, once this „secret“ is out and the general public realise what has been going on, it will wake them up to the whole issue in a very stark way, which will then make the toilets argument a lot easier to discuss.

It’s absolutely bonkers that we have to argue why males should be kept out of the female prison estate.

It should be up to transadvocates to prove it’s beneficial to female prisoners before changes were/are made.

And as most natal women want prisons to be single sex, not single gender, and transmen generally want to stay in the female estate*, that’s going to be rather a challenging thing to prove.

*source:

‘Bent Bars’ recently put out some stuff about
Trans prisoners. Top of page 8 using their own page numbers (page 9 on the pdf).

uploads-ssl.webflow.com/5f008e177bc6f82d3047d132/5fccb6f608fc309d5079d552_BB_TIS_1.pdf

The other info sheets are available here: www.bentbarsproject.org/news/bent-bars-launch-trans-prisoner-info-sheets

@ArabellaScott

vivarium - there are little over 300 women in prison in Scotland.

This means that there are around 4 times the amount of transwomen in prison in Scotland as there are women, can this be right? If so, this is not the odd, isolated case, is it?! This is women's prisons three-quarters full of males who identify as women.

Someone tell me I've got the maths wrong, please.

I don’t think the maths is wrong, but I doubt many of the 600 are actually held in the female estate.

The info sheets I posted above say the majority of trans prisoners of either sex are currently held in the estate of their birth sex.

Bent Bars self describe as ‘ The Bent Bars Project is a letter-writing project for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, transsexual, gender-variant, intersex, and queer prisoners in Britain. The project was founded in 2009, responding to a clear need to develop stronger connections and build solidarity between LGBTQ communities inside and outside prison walls. ‘

So presume they are including Scottish trans prisoners in their summary.

@Europilgrim

That video that Nauticant posted is just jaw-dropping. How is it possible to believe that it is a good idea that males who have raped and murdered women and girls should be transferred into low risk female prisons?!

Yes, it's shocking.

I'm now thinking about the self-declaration activists who were called to give evidence to the women and equalities committee. This is what they want, isn't it?
They want a system in which people are allowed to choose their sex as they please for whatever reason, so in practice everything becomes mixed sex. Prisons are a great example of why it's a disastrous idea.

Plant mum yes, that makes sense - in which case the SPS is being transphobic.

If some TW can be housed with females (like Paris Green) then why are other TW languishing with the males (like Tiffany Scott)?

If roolz is roolz then why are SPS denying Tiffany the right to be recognised in their gender in the way they are recognising Paris?

Here's a podcast with Helen Joyce in conversation with Meghan Murphy:

www.feministcurrent.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Feminist-Current-Helen-Joyce-Nov-13-2020.mp3

If you go to 50.50 you'll get to the section where they discuss transwomen in women's prisons.

I found an FOI from 2017 that suggests much smaller numbers:

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST (HQ 17153)
Thank you for your request dated 26 &27 October 2017 under the Freedom of Information (Scotland)
Act 2002 (FOISA) for:
“Information on the transgender population in Scottish Prison and specifically the following questions,”

1. How many transgender prisoners are there in Scotland and have been in recent years?

There are currently 18 transgender prisoners, 8 in 2016 and 6 in 2015.

1. How many have requested a transfer to prison which reflect their new identity?

12 have requested a transfer to prison which reflect their new identity

1. How many have been successful and which facility have they been transferred to?

Given that there have been less than 5 prisoners transferred we are unable to confirm which establishments they have been transferred to, due to the constraints of the Data Protection Act 1998.

1. Were any successful applicants sex offenders?

No

1. Can you confirm that no medical certificate or paperwork is required if someone self identifies as a gender they weren’t born and wants to transfer from a men’s to woman’s

facility. What safeguards are in place to ensure someone named as male on their birth cert who now identified as a woman does not pose a serious risk to women in the event of transfer to a women’s facility?

No medical certificate is required. A risk assessment is carried out and case management would decide on any actions required, based on the identified risks.

1. Do you have concerns that some prisoners named as male on their birth certs might be self-identifying as woman and seeking transfer to a women’s facility in pursuit of an easier life?

This information is not held. FOSIA allows a request for information which is held by the authority.

1. Have there been any incidents of transgender prisoners who have transferred to woman’s prison facilities going on to commit violence against female inmates?

This information is not held by SPS as this is a matter for the Procurator Fiscal.

1. Any plans to review policies in this area to address any concerns that male sex offenders and other serious criminals can look forward to an easier life in prison if they start to self-identify as women.

The SPS Equality Outcomes (5) published earlier this year, gave a commitment to review our policy on managing transgender prisoners in line with legislative changes.

From: www.sps.gov.uk/FreedomofInformation/FOI-5435.aspx

I’m only half way through that Meghan Murphy / Heather Mason video that Nauticant posted but just also wanted to say how absolutely shocking it is!

How the hell is Canada allowing this?!?! My gob is well and truly smacked!!

Oh and huge hugs to Heather for speaking up about this! Brave woman!

Another point which was mentioned but not explored in detail in that video is that women's prisons have to up their security level to deal with transwomen - which means that women lose out again as mother and baby units are low-level security and cannot be accommodated. How is this NOT a conflict of interest if mothers are being denied the opportunity to bond with their babies?

there was also someone (Dr Jane Clare Jones poss?) who was doing a survey and speaking directly to women in prisons to see how male-bodied transgender in women's prisons is affecting them - I'm not sure when the results of that were coming out.

oh sorry, was it @KeepPrisonsSingleSex doing the survey?? didn't see you there - sorry :¬)

@gardenbird48

there was also someone (Dr Jane Clare Jones poss?) who was doing a survey and speaking directly to women in prisons to see how male-bodied transgender in women's prisons is affecting them - I'm not sure when the results of that were coming out.

Is it this, you were thinking of? fairplayforwomen.com/insidetime/

I love Rhona H. And for those of you who prefer watching to reading, here is the wonderous RH in youtube:

Love her!

@Europilgrim

Another point which was mentioned but not explored in detail in that video is that women's prisons have to up their security level to deal with transwomen - which means that women lose out again as mother and baby units are low-level security and cannot be accommodated. How is this NOT a conflict of interest if mothers are being denied the opportunity to bond with their babies?

Yes, that video makes it very clear that there are so many different ways women prisoners’ lives are made very much harder when male prisoners can identify into women’s prisons, on top of the issue many of us would think of first, that of sexual harassment and violence.

It’s such a tough watch but so important.

Is it this, you were thinking of?
fairplayforwomen.com/insidetime/

ah yes, that's the one thank you :¬))

Yes, that video makes it very clear that there are so many different ways women prisoners’ lives are made very much harder when male prisoners can identify into women’s prisons, on top of the issue many of us would think of first, that of sexual harassment and violence.

I was thinking about this in relation to the Limerick situation - depending on the normal staffing on a female only prisoner unit (assuming that it is preferable to place female prison staff in a female prisoner unit), then that would presumably require staff changes/increases (?) to ensure the safety, not only of the women prisoners but also the staff. They must need (large) male backup to assist with safety of all of the women against two known violent offenders.

If male-bodied transgender prisoners are causing changes in staffing for safety and that is threatening the mother and baby units, then that is beyond horrendous.

Exactly.

Housing males in a women's prison changes the overall risk present in that facility. This needs to be managed. This takes up resources earmarked for use in the female estate, which now cannot be used to benefit women in prison.

The 'transgender' unit at Downview was hastily converted into a unit for males with a GRC who could not be managed safely within the normal female estate.

Prior to this, the unit had been used as a facility for 17 year old female offenders. It was in the process of being used to house women who were awaiting release from prison.

That has now been denied to the women at Downview.

The male inmates held at the Unit are able to mix with women in the main prison population in order to access activities and facilities like the gym and library. The unit is not intended to be a permanent solution: male prisoners held there are to be assisted in progressing back into the normal female estate.