Atlantic has an article about "anti-trans feminism" and of course Mumsnet is mentioned

[WeeBisom]

Link here:www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/12/reddit-ovarit-the-donald/617320/

The journalist compares feminist spaces like Lipstick Alley, Ovarit, and Mumsnet to right wing communities like incels and the Donald. The article is disappointing because they get so many basic things wrong. In the very first paragraph they equate 'radical' feminism with extremism, and talk about a woman becoming 'further radicalised'. They say that gender critical feminists believe 'gender is fixed' when that's not what gender critical feminists believe at all. And the article tells the lie that radical feminists dox, harass and bully trans women when we do nothing of the sort. It's just frustrating to have so many lies and misconceptions spread about online feminist communities.

I love Karen so much. Her voice, her sense of humour. She is so great.

And that request for someone to let her in on the secret internet of the t**fs.

She's so charismatic

I really respect The Atlantic and wonder if this is some kind of ninja backflip reverse psychology. They’ve published excellent balanced articles by people like Helen Lewis and Jesse Singal (on child transition/detransition), and John McWhorter and have received a lot of hate from the woke as a result.

So in response they ask a clickbaity Vox journalist to write a completely disingenuous piece which comes across as unhinged and badly researched, not to mention also badly written.

This will do two things. First, it will possibly satisfy the most rapid wokies so they keep reading and possibly are exposed to real journalism by accident. Second, your average Atlantic reader will compare this article to literally everything else published in the magazine - and the comparison will not be in favor of this article!

Downside would be people might look at just this article and decide against renewing because wow it is really bad.

@Marcywillows and anyone else visiting here from LSA

Hello there, I wanted to ask you a quick question about how heavily moderated you are on LSA in regards to discussing the conflicts between women's rights and the trans philosophy. Not because I'm planning on moving in , but just because I want to compare notes.

MN is under strict scrutiny and anything we say that goes over the line (which moves about) is used to persuade advertisers and official forum partners to remove their adverts and money. We have a little unofficial list of words we aren't allowed to say, and it is extremely important we remain polite and impersonal at all times. The site founder gets badgered on twitter if we start threads about particular people in the media being misogynistic in attitude, and so on.

Some threads here end up with so many deletions I don't know what they were about!

How is it going for you?

I think I love LSA.

@AndNob

Hi, hope you're well! I'm trying to get the word out on my little book, The Grumpy Guide to Radical Feminism. It's a 2nd edition, and now it's in 4 languages: English, Portuguese, French and Spanish. For laughs and feminist theory. This is my main work now, my husband is unemployed at the moment, so I'm trying to make ends meet. I'm self-published. I would really love to go back to the UK - my kids were born in Scotland and we miss it a lot. We're in France now. Please consider it this Christmas as a gift for women of all ages, young and older, who need a light reading or would like to understand the women's rights movement! Thanks very much!

Oh, as an appetizer, I mention Mumsnet in the book!

The Grumpy Guide to Radical Feminism
]]

Would this make a suitable gift for a 14 year old girl or should I hold off another couple of years? 😂

I haven't come across Karen before but that was a really good watch. She does a great fake smile

I'm new to this (motherhood as well as online forums ;-) and I hate that my first comment will be this one, but I can't stand the lies and blatant manipulation that I see everywhere around this issue. How have we come to this? How is misogyny having such a good time nowadays?

That article is preposterous and fundamentally wrong... This confusion of terms (radical = extremist? really? is that all you've got?) I don't know if it's due to malice or general illiteracy, but it's so frustrating...

I'm sorry this was just a rant. I'll try not to keep them going

Never apologise for having a rant. Never apologise for feeling angry about women's oppression.

Welcome to Mumsnet! Did you get sent here by the Atlantic?

MsNeis

All good questions. Keep them coming. Don’t hold them back.

@MsNeis

I'm new to this (motherhood as well as online forums ;-) and I hate that my first comment will be this one, but I can't stand the lies and blatant manipulation that I see everywhere around this issue. How have we come to this? How is misogyny having such a good time nowadays?

That article is preposterous and fundamentally wrong... This confusion of terms (radical = extremist? really? is that all you've got?) I don't know if it's due to malice or general illiteracy, but it's so frustrating...

I'm sorry this was just a rant. I'll try not to keep them going

Congrats! You have found your sister-tribe!

Having a first baby is a bit like a sparrow flying into a glass door. It’s often the first time we really feel the Invisible boundaries that the patriarchy has built for us.

I’m presuming the author of this Atlantic piece is yet to fly into a patio door. We’ll be waiting for her when she does. With

I'm a relatively new fan of Karen/You're Kiddin' Right. She's glorious.

Welcome MsNeis . Get it off your chest, it helps!

Great post PlantMam

Having a first baby is a bit like a sparrow flying into a glass door. It’s often the first time we really feel the Invisible boundaries that the patriarchy has built for us.

One of my friends has a brilliant phrase: radicalised by motherhood.

A sparrow into patio doors sums it up so perfectly.

@CaraDuneRedux

Having a first baby is a bit like a sparrow flying into a glass door. It’s often the first time we really feel the Invisible boundaries that the patriarchy has built for us.

One of my friends has a brilliant phrase: radicalised by motherhood.

A sparrow into patio doors sums it up so perfectly.

That is 100% me - radicalized by motherhood. I wouldn't even call myself a feminist before I had kids. Afterwards it was like I'd woken up in the Matrix (ironic, since "matrix" comes from the Latin for "mother").

Yes, when a certain prominent trans celebrity tried to shame Mumsnet by deriding it as a ‘Radicalisation Portal’ it just showed their inability to understand what women’s lives are actually like...

It’s not Mumsnet that radicalises us, it’s motherhood*

*alternative routes to feminism exist too, obvs!

If anyone here would like an invite to Ovarit, just let me know.

It’s not Mumsnet that radicalises us, it’s motherhood

alternative routes to feminism exist too, obvs!

And many of those alternative routes also stem from biology. Like being a victim of male violence, being passed over for work because you might have a baby, dealing with infertility, having your health problems ignored.

They say that gender critical feminists believe 'gender is fixed' when that's not what gender critical feminists believe at all.

#nodebate seems to be working, when people don't have the foggiest idea about what we're on about, and they categorically refuse to find out. I saw a libfem acquaintance claim today that 'radical feminists only see white HETEROSEXUAL "cis" people as human'. Like... how the fuck can you be that off base?

Have you noticed how no one seems to want to admit that Keira Bell is a young lesbian of colour?

Or if they do, they attempt to remove her agency by saying she’s been indoctrinated by white middle aged terves or they deny her own testimony and claim she isn’t a reidentified woman at all and instead label her as nonbinary but in denial?

She's "that girl" in a few articles.

@PlantMam

Have you noticed how no one seems to want to admit that Keira Bell is a young lesbian of colour?

Or if they do, they attempt to remove her agency by saying she’s been indoctrinated by white middle aged terves or they deny her own testimony and claim she isn’t a reidentified woman at all and instead label her as nonbinary but in denial?

Exactly. While the libfems spouting this (at least in my circles) are white middle class married American ladies. They're very quick to point fingers and shout "white feminism!" at people, which just makes me roll my eyes.

They ignore Allison Bailey, too. White feminism. Pshaw. It might be a western issue as yet, but that doesn't mean the ramifications of this issue only affect white women in the west. In fact, it disproportionately impacts women other than white middle-class libfems.

Emma Watson and Olivia Colman are never going to end up in prison with someone like Karen White, are they? How often do either of them ever deign to mix with the plebs in a Primark fitting room?

Lol it’s just another version of the now derided champagne socialism phrase or virtue signalling. These guys genuinely feel morally superior supporting things they’ll never have to deal with in their bolt holes . Might like the idea of supporting a pretty feminine man who is harmless and might pass but then ignore a 6 foot 4 brick shithouse with a beard claiming the same rights. Like that copper!