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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS trans guidance- URGENT request for help!

56 replies

Watermonster · 08/12/2020 14:19

Several of us have spent over a year trying to get local NHS policy to consider the needs of women, not just males who identify as women, in setting policy about wards, recommending puberty blockers and breast binding to teenage girls etc.
As a result the local NHS CCG reluctantly carried out an Equality Impact assessment, which shows the trans guidance directly harms women and girls. Even the doctors wrote in to complain. The board want to pass it anyway, but have opened a public survey for feedback by 15th December.
PLEASE help us by responding - 1000s of women will be negatively affected by this .Here's the info you need-

copy of the Equality impact assessment to read

bnssgccg-media.ams3.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/attachments/govbody_1Dec20_item6.1.pdf

and the survey for comments

bnssgccg.nhs.uk/get-involved/surveys-and-consultations/engagement-equality-impact-assessment-supporting-trans-people-best-practice-guidance/

OP posts:
TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 09/12/2020 09:24

Still that fucking case-by-case basis being at the level of the individual, rather than the service.

Despite EHRC guidance being amended to make it clear that it's the situation that's the case (ie. single sex wards), not the person (ie. this male can be on the female ward, but this one can't)

ScoldsBridle · 09/12/2020 10:15

So I’ve just put some comments in the feedback section (survey monkey form) - is that right? Didn’t have to put my name or Email address so am wondering if I’ve responded in the right bit?!

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 09/12/2020 10:40

I did the same ScoldsBridle

Manderleyagain · 09/12/2020 11:46

Thanks OP. Deadline mid December - not long! I will get onto it.

gardenbird48 · 09/12/2020 12:50

I have completed the survey and also emailed to the Bristol address given at the very bottom of the Toolkit.

Main points for me:

The mitigation for the impact on women with the protected characteristic of Religious Beliefs directs people to the 'Delivering Same-Sex Accommodation Guide' which specifies that anyone, whether part time trans or full time can choose to be accommodated onto a female ward. Not sure on which planet they think that mitigates the risk!!

Same for the impact on women (pc Sex) that may have suffered trauma and therefore cannot possibly be on a ward with a man - the recommended mitigation is to refer them to the Guide that says that any male can identify onto the ward. Not remotely acceptable.

There is also the point that you don't need to have suffered rape or trauma (and disclose that) to be given the right to a single sex ward. We have that right in law already.

They have used a disingenous interpretation of the EA 2010, emphasising that access will be considered on a case by case basis, implying at an individual level. The link below shows the actual law that states that case by case refers to a type of service or space ie. all rape shelters etc and specifically mentions same sex hospital wards as an example. How any numpty has misunderstood that I don't know - the more I got into this the crosser I got at how useless this EIA is and this is an improvement on the last version!!

It is also grossly unacceptable to push this potentially very difficult negotiation onto the frontline nursing staff to sort out - you've got a male-bodied person who wants to be placed on the female ward and you've got a load of women who might be unhappy but may not be well enough to advocate for themselves but you can't really talk about it because of your obligation of privacy to the transgender patient and if he makes a complaint of transphobia you might lose your job.

They also state that detransitioning rates are 'a very small percentage' - I have pointed out that seeing as the Tavistock couldn't be bothered to gather any useful data on patients and outcomes, they have no way of knowing whether it is a small percentage or not. Also the relative timescale of 5 yrs (affirmation only mainly started in 2015) is not long enough.
They also mentioned something about transwomen not being known to be a risk to women obviously not true - there are many good stats to refute that one.

Hope that is helpful if anyone is looking to complete the survey.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7 it is there in black and white!!

gardenbird48 · 09/12/2020 12:53

@TreestumpsAndTrampolines

Still that fucking case-by-case basis being at the level of the individual, rather than the service.

Despite EHRC guidance being amended to make it clear that it's the situation that's the case (ie. single sex wards), not the person (ie. this male can be on the female ward, but this one can't)

It is absolutely shocking negligence Treestumps - it written in the law and is there for all to see in black and white!! I sent them a helpful link... Hmm
KateW73 · 09/12/2020 15:43

Done.

The EIA needs to be redone but the guidance document just needs binning - I thought I'd already reached peak medical negligence promoted by the trans lobby, but WTF on page 9. An example of a trans child is a 4 year old who attempted to cut their genitals :O
And no where after reading that is there any questioning of the parents' assertion that this shows the 4 year old is trans and, even worse, no guidance in the document that this child needs urgent referral to child protection. FFS, there is so much malpractice and neglect of kids that is all glossed over by sparkle and rainbows.

OhHolyJesus · 09/12/2020 15:57

Why do women have to do all this work to fight against people wanting to break the law?! Is there any other area where this is happening?

Well quite. It's exhausting.

I've done this OP, so will my mum and my best friend and I've shared where I can.

It's also a reminder to check with my own NHS trust.

It's so tedious but we must keep going.

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 09/12/2020 16:06

^An example of a trans child is a 4 year old who attempted to cut their genitals :O
And no where after reading that is there any questioning of the parents' assertion that this shows the 4 year old is trans and, even worse, no guidance in the document that this child needs urgent referral to child protection^

This is shocking

MsMarvellous · 09/12/2020 16:50

Glinner shared this about earlier and I completed it for you. I may have been a little to disparaging about that bloody leaflet and what I thought of the content!

anotherFOIrequester · 09/12/2020 17:01

Thank you Water and everybody!

Case by case is nonsense and completely unworkable - daft policy dumped by ppl who won't have to deal with ramifications onto overworked ppl who will.

Scientistranswidow · 09/12/2020 17:14

I am about to Tweet and will signpost to this Mumsnet thread and Watermonster list of objections. My own responses are: revised EIA is approximately OK although will need revision very soon as law and guidance is changing both in NHS and from legal cases. But Trans doc uses "gender identity" language and ideology, which is not accepted by most people and is detrimental to women and girls, and women and girls MUST in law have single-sex wards and intimate care from female clinicians if they request.

Watermonster · 09/12/2020 17:32

Thanks all.
@gardenbird48. Yes there is a growing list of 'invisible' vulnerable women who can't access medical care as they can't consent to mixed sex wards, and hospitals are just excluding them without a 2nd thought.
Here's another link to the national policy- every woman should be complaining, and asking local hospitals for their policy on how they ensure women who need single sex can access care!
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4102059-Did-you-know-this-is-in-the-nhs-same-sex-accommodation-policy

OP posts:
EdgeOfACoin · 10/12/2020 06:03

Thanks OP. This will be something to do over the weekend.

Thelnebriati · 12/12/2020 18:27

Quick bump.

nzborn · 12/12/2020 21:37

Done.

anotherFOIrequester · 13/12/2020 15:36

Interesting - the EIA references Greater Glasgow and Clyde CCG which also put out trans guidance that the public objected to.
GGC CCG have now apologised for not updating guidance on puberty blockers to reflect risks:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0889d1de-3cc1-11eb-838a-941b63872fa8?shareToken

Jeeeez · 14/12/2020 18:45

Completed ✔

Bump...

anotherFOIrequester · 15/12/2020 12:24

Brilliant work everyone. Just doing mine even though I have already said it all to them by email...it never ends...

Cross posting here from the other thread - CALLING DEVON WOMEN!!

DEVON**

Devon women! I received a response to my FOI about the review due on their policy which currently allows male rapists on female wards: www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/707779/response/1691857/attach/2/Freedom%20of%20Information%20Response%2020%2021%20182.pdf

"The Trust is currently undertaking biennial review of the Supporting transgender, non-binary and intersex patients’ policy in line with policy requirements. The ratified policy will be published in spring 2021, following thorough review and consultation with a range of key stakeholders. As the policy review is currently in early stages of scoping, the Trust is not currently able to provide details of the review process undertaken and outcomes as these have not yet been reached.This information will be available once the process has completed, in spring 2021."

I don't live in Devon but became aware of this terrible policy because Devon Partnership Trust also approved the toolkit commissioned by my local CCG (Bristol/North Somerset/South Glos).

Please ACT NOW to get involved in this. The FOI response raises lots of questions (who are the stakeholders?), but I think the first thing to do is INSIST the trust carries out an EIA, as BNSSG CCG have now done, setting a precedent.

bishopgiggles · 15/12/2020 23:23

Just looking at the EIA now.
Under 'pregnancy and maternity' (neutral impact) the text says 'There is no evidence to show that any elements of the toolkit would have an impact on marriage and civil partnership.'
Text input error or have they not actually considered pregnancy and maternity?

Terranean · 16/12/2020 02:06

It appears that has been extended until the 17th December.
Bump it in for more responses.

Thanks OP and contributors very interesting read

Inkysmummy · 16/12/2020 14:16

Hi I'm out of the catchment area for the consultation referred to by the OP but have discovered that the Morecambe Bay Hospitals NHS Trust Transgender Care document (version 1.1) referred to on page 27 (oddly under non NHS resources heading) was not available. I made enquiries with the hospital trust as I live in the catchment area and it has been updated and I have been told it will be uploaded to the website soon. I have been sent a word copy but don't know how to share it here as don't have a link. From a quick skim through there are similar issues with it as with the Toolkit under consultation only their Equality Assessment re Sex has only considered it from the Trans person's viewpoint so is said to be 'neutral/positive.'
I think there is a similar problem with the South London & Maudsley NHS trust document which isn't on their website either.

Watermonster · 17/12/2020 16:50

The survey is open to all- there is a section at the end to state if you live out of area.
Sounds like you need to make a formal complaint to the Trusts in your area that they are failing to adhere to the Public Sector Equality by excluding women and those with religious beliefs who can't share wards with the opposite sex, and the EIA does not meet Equality standards due to its ideological bias. The doctors letter and poor Bristol EIA may help.

OP posts:
Inkysmummy · 17/12/2020 18:47

Thanks. I have done the survey today to point out that the policy they referred to wasn’t available. I’m still digging for evidence. There is quite a bit to go at, starting with the fact that on their website which says under a heading Privacy and dignity
We want your experience with us to be as good as it can be. We aim to provide you with high quality care and treatment that is safe, effective and respects your privacy and dignity:-

Patients who are admitted to any of our hospitals will only share the room where they sleep with members of the same sex, and same sex toilets and bathrooms will be close to their bed area. Sharing with members of the opposite sex will only happen by exception based on clinical need, for example, where patients need specialist equipment such as in Intensive Care or when patients choose to share.

We also ask our patients and visitors to respect the privacy and dignity of others. If you have any concerns, please let us know.

The Equality Act sch 3 , para 28 Gender reassignment 739 says This paragraph contains an exception to the general prohibition of gender reassignment discrimination in relation to the provision of separate and single sex services. Such treatment by a provider has to be objectively justified.

The words ‘objectively justified’are key here and themselves have a legal definition. This can’t be on a case by case basis irrespective of what the unhelpful ehrc guidance says.

Inkysmummy · 17/12/2020 20:45

Correction, the University Hospitals of Morecambe Bay revised guidance (referred to in the Toolkit posted by the op) was put on their public website late yesterday as I was sent a link from the Patient Services manager.

www.uhmb.nhs.uk/application/files/9816/0812/9722/Transgender_Guidance_-_Colleagues_and_Patients_2020.docx

Any comments welcome if you have a moment. Thanks