BBC article - women disadvantaged by excessive queues but gender neutral people feel unsafe in the mens.

[Mycatismadeofstringcheese]

BBC article.

Implies the only issue women object to in relation to gender neutral mixed sex toilets is being disadvantaged by excessive queues. The real is is that gender neutral people feel unsafe in the mens.

No quote from women about their safety, or privacy, or ideas about how to make the men’s safer for men.

But there’s an email address to write to with your opinions.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-55164675

Hi OP, there's a government consultation which women can contribute to, the link is in this thread Government review of gender neutral toilets www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4096528-Government-review-of-gender-neutral-toilets

No quote from women about their safety, There is!

But campaigner Susan Cunningham says women need "separate same-sex facilities for their safety and security and comfort".

This was mentioned on Politics Live BBC 2 about an hour ago.

From about 27 minutes

I only caught the end so I’ll listen to the whole thing now.

gender neutral people feel unsafe in the mens.

And women feel unsafe when males come into the women's rooms, for exactly the same reason.

It's not rocket science: you can't claim that only gender neutral and male people get to have valid feelings about safety. Unless you believe female people are some lesser species and don't feel distress and pain the way real humans do.

Make a third space. Ffs. Gold plate it. Make it floor to ceiling single lockable cubicles. Provide silver service waiters in there with loo rolls. Pipe in live music. Do whatever makes people happy, I've got every sympathy with feeling unsafe. But leave women's single spaces the fuck alone.

How sexist of gender neutral people to feel unsafe in the mens. NOT ALL MEN ARE LIKE THAT. I know that for definite because I've been told it hundreds of time over the years. I was told it when I was sexually harassed, sexually assaulted, sex trafficked, raped, drugged, when I encountered sexism, creepy men, abuse and domestic violence.

Get another interview where the only one for the gender neutral toilets cant actually answer the question.

So obvious there's a set script that goes strait to discussing identity and telling children why they aren't entitled to privacy and dignity of same sex provision.

Yet another

I still don't understand how for a number of years now we've been having simultaneous conversations about boundaries, #metoo and predatory men, while blithely waving away boundaries that protect women and girls from predatory men.

“t's not rocket science: you can't claim that only gender neutral and male people get to have valid feelings about safety. Unless you believe female people are some lesser species and don't feel distress and pain the way real humans do.”

This from Michelle’s post sums it up for me.

Third spaces. Can be used by gender-neutral/trans allies as well, so no danger of them compromising trans peoples' rights to privacy about their identity.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

No quote from women about their safety, There is!

But campaigner Susan Cunningham says women need "separate same-sex facilities for their safety and security and comfort".

I was racking my brain to see how I missed that quote and fortunately still had the page open on my phone. It wasn’t there when I first read the article.

I refresh led the page and it is there.

Screenshot of original

Screenshot with new quote.

29:36 on the programme.
Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government document.

“There have been a number of high-profile cases and campaigns where women’s toilets have been reduced or removed.
Our review will help us understand the full extent of this and ensure there is a diversity of provision and facilities for everyone. “

Sorry, typing while my cat... posted.

Some sensible and clear comments from the women interviewed, I thought.

I was racking my brain to see how I missed that quote and fortunately still had the page open on my phone. It wasn’t there when I first read the article. Do you think someone had a shout?

The reason I posted was because I felt the BBC was trying to lead the narrative by saying women were concerned about queues but GN people needed access for their safety. (So you know shut up and be kind).

Article had been up 12 hours when I posted so although they’ve corrected it, the unbalanced version will have been seen by many people.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I was racking my brain to see how I missed that quote and fortunately still had the page open on my phone. It wasn’t there when I first read the article. Do you think someone had a shout?

By the power of Mumsnet?

I think the fact that a review is taking place is a positive thing and an opportunity to get better public loo provision for women.

I agree Hecates Cats. The review is a good thing... if our national broadcaster doesn’t try to skew the outcome by misrepresenting the key points.

What is the argument against having single cubicle toilets? Other than space to put them. Rather than a shared basin area, you go in from the public corridor or whatever to your own individual room with toilet, basin, mirror. Everyone's safe because no-one can get in (unless they force their way in of course, but that's true anywhere and would hopefully be socially frowned upon.)

Rather than a shared basin area, you go in from the public corridor or whatever to your own individual room with toilet, basin, mirror

It's the whatever that is the problem . In my area a newly refurbished public building will have mixed sex toilet areas with cubicles with handbasins accessed from a corridor through 2 closed doors into the area where the cubicles are. Guess what wasn't even considered in their Equality Impact Assessment.

@bathsh3ba

What is the argument against having single cubicle toilets? Other than space to put them. Rather than a shared basin area, you go in from the public corridor or whatever to your own individual room with toilet, basin, mirror. Everyone's safe because no-one can get in (unless they force their way in of course, but that's true anywhere and would hopefully be socially frowned upon.)

Well, men tend to leave public loos in a disgusting state. I feel like every time I walk into a unisex cubicle I immediately back out retching. This has been the experience of just about every woman I've shared the experience with (e.g. same office block, not going to the loos in pairs!)

But more seriously, voyeurs plant cameras in there too.

How does it benefit women and girls to make more and more toilets mixed sex?

Single cubicles are dirty. The basin inside is too near the loo unless it is 6 feet away. Flush the loo without the lid down and it is contaminated with faecal spray . You then wash your hands and have to open the cubicle door. If the previous user doesn’t wash their hands that door is filthy as well. If you have shared washbasins that’s a safety risk plus embarrassing for women needing to wash mooncups, blood from clothing or adjust wigs hijabs clothing etc under a male gaze

Make men’s mixed sexed and leave women’s alone.