La Leche League will support males (of the male sex) who wish to breastfeed.

[ExLLLeader]

I picked this up on a recent Facebook post and could not quite believe it so made the following complaint/query and it is true. I was a La Leche League Leader for many years and am very upset to see how the organisation has lost its focus on the Mother and baby.

Complaint To The Board of Directors/Trustees

Dear Board members,

I was alarmed to see a post yesterday on the LLLGB Facebook page. The post in celebrating Transgender awareness week. The post links to the this page which states

LLLGB supports everyone who wants to breastfeed or chestfeed in reaching their goals. We do not discriminate based on sex, gender or gender identity.

And
Trans men, trans women and non-binary individuals may choose to breastfeed or chestfeed their babies.

And
Trans women can use a protocol similar to adoptive and other non-gestational mothers and stimulate their milk supply: it is called the Newman-Goldfarb protocol.

I have two issues I wish to complain about and they relate to the idea that males/Transwomen can breastfeed.

LLLGB should not be promoting the idea that males can induce lactation to feed a baby. There is no evidence to say this is safe, only an anecdotal example of a case where a doctor in the US enabled this to happen using off label drugs. The focus of the paper is mainly on the desires of the male bodied person and there is little interest in the impact on the baby and indeed the mother. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779241/ . I would hope you have also considered the fetishisation of breastfeeding which does not only apply to men watching women, males lactating is also a paraphilia.

Why would LLLGB of all organisations choose not to discriminate on the basis of sex as it is perfectly entitled to under the equalities act? By saying these two statements there is nothing to stop a male wishing to come to women only meetings. Even I presume, before the baby is born. Im not sure if you would require that the male considered themselves to be a woman by performing gender stereotypes or not. (The male in the study had no surgery so still had a functioning penis.) Does this entitle a male who has breastfed to apply for Leadership?

Yours Sincerely
(ExLLLeader)

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Dear (ExLLLeader)
Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.
Your first concern is that there may be safety concerns relating to inducing lactation via drugs. The protocol used by Trans men is very similar to that used by women wishing to induce lactation. This treatment has an established treatment history. As lay breastfeeding counsellors, LLL Leaders role is to provide up to date and accurate information which individuals can use to inform their discussion with their healthcare provider.
Our groups have discretion to consider the needs of their communities when they decide who can attend. Some will by default be women only, however our support is and must always be open to anyone who needs support and information to breastfeed (which some individuals call chestfeeding). This would mean that a group would need to find a way to balance the needs of members who needed a single sex space, with the needs of an individual who needed chestfeeding support.
Eligibility for La Leche League Leadership is set by LLL International and can be found here: www.llli.org/get-involved/prerequisites/
As an organisation with a robust safeguarding culture, if we had concerns about an individual's motivation for seeking breastfeeding support we would take appropriate action to protect families and babies.
Best wishes (LLL Trustee)
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Dear (LLL Trustee)
Thank you for your reply, I have copied my complaint below as I was raising concerns about the male sex – i.e. Transwomen and breastfeeding and you have answered as if my concern is about female sexed i.e. trans men.

Best wishes (ExLLLeader)
_
Dear (ExLLLeader)
My apologies - I used the wrong word there. I should have said the protocol used by transwomen wishing to induce lactation is very similar to that used by women. The rest of my reply is intended to answer your points as raised.
(LLL Trustee)
___
Dear (LLL Trustee)
I am surprised to hear this. Would you therefor support a ‘Cis” man to breastfeed and provide the nutrients for a newborn baby?
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Not had an answer

That's not what LLL said though

No it's not. It's called the Newman-goldfarb protocol. Jack Newman is in Canada. Goldfarb was a woman who had a baby that was biologically hers via surrogate. The baby was prem too.

Major cognitive dissonance going on, plus the ideological impact of how Canada treats its women.

@NeurotrashWarrior an sns would alow for the skin to skin bonding aspect of breastfeeding without the risks of medication. They are fiddly AF to use though (I'm not commenting on the rights and wrongs of this btw).

Why would a transwoman want to breastfeed a baby massive?

Because. No more questions.

When you've got self id and non transitioning transwomen, you're effectively saying men will be supported to bf. Using the protocol. I can't see how the original statements in the op would prevent this.

I did read once of a father using sns while his wife was extremely ill post birth. Possibly with a nipple shield. Not sure.

@HecatesCats like I said I'm not weighing in on the rights and wrongs but the existence and use of sns (which are becoming quite common ime) seemed relevant to the thread.

But what would be the motivation massive?

@ICJump

LLL US, Canada and international have been on this train for a long time.

Im also becoming increasingly worried that the inclusion of trans men isnt making breastfeeding support harder. There is a push to refer to breastfeeding as body feeding. It’s not enought to include trans men but all language must remove the words women and breast incase they are trigged.
Anyone that disagrees is pilloried.

Can’t they just have a prominent button on their website landing page ‘information for chest-feeding transmen’ and retain the universally understood terms on the rest of their pages. Transmen are catered for, but it doesn’t alienate women or confuse second language English speakers.

@HecatesCats I'm not sure why you're asking me that.

@HecatesCats

But what would be the motivation massive?

This.

Once the question is asked, the answers, hypothetical or not, must be considered.

Safeguarding is based on a lot of hypothetical situations to try to avoid actual real life situations.

Words and how they operate within the law, matter.

They were shit to me about breastfeeding struggles when dd was young. I wonder if they will be shit to transwomen. To get the full breastfeeding experience you need to be treated like a failure within days of childbirth .

If any of us want to or can I think questions and comments could be redirected to the article. I will do so later.

Though LLL and DM are watching here, it's more public and will hopefully expose some further truth as the DM didn't quite get to the F word...

I'm going to ask why they would ever record gender identity. If you record sex, you would get 90% females asking for breastfeeding help but in the past and for most branches you wouldn't need to bother as it's women who needs support, not men!

@NeurotrashWarrior

Waves to the journos.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8997405/Breastfeeding-charity-sparks-outrage-allowing-men-identify-female-attend-meetings.html

Not read it yet.

I’ve skimmed it - it mentions mumsnet a couple of times - a couple of good quotes - (go MN!) and described the protocol to induce ‘lactation’ - birth control hormones and anti nausea drugs (which doesn’t sound great). They don’t gather data on how many male born people have used their service (this is one of the biggest issues - there is no recording of the extent of this - not in the NHS or so many places) and implied that objectors may be a bit behind the times

They don’t gather data on how many male born people have used their service (this is one of the biggest issues - there is no recording of the extent of this - not in the NHS or so many places) and implied that objectors may be a bit behind the times hmm

The chilling part of this, and one that is being played out everywhere, is it doesn't matter what they record. They will not be able to record sex accurately. They will only be able to record what sex people identify as.

They could end up with an entire organisation supporting men who want to breastfeed. And, unless they make a stand, they can do fuck all about it.

Once those 'male breastfeeding individuals' gain positions of power and influence, they have no recourse. Mission creep, regulatory capture, call it what you like. We are seeing it everywhere.

lascapigliata8.wordpress.com/2018/03/26/analysis-of-study-of-induced-lactation-in-trans-identified-man/?fbclid=IwAR1A8kI6w4DS9r5hcM1yEjfpxWnk12AoL_KcEwoAoM5bz-i3hVWEPaPkjmw

I’m not sure if this link has been shared on this thread already (sorry, I can’t face going back over to check) but it is an analysis from an actual doctor of the study of the male bodied person that is said to have fed an infant for 6 weeks (the issues she points out with the study are so extensive that I would be questioning the qualifications of the doctor who carried it out).
One telling point is that the sex of the baby is not mentioned at all even though it appears that the non surgically transitioned male bodied person has fully male levels of testosterone which would be concerning if it was a female infant.
An interesting read.

So for every person this relates to there is a mum who has given birth and approves/is going along with this?

Just read the Mail piece. It's not a bad article but I wish they'd made more about the implications for infant health and well being. The rights of a child not to used as an experimentation or a prop for someone's validity should be first and foremost here.

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

So for every person this relates to there is a mum who has given birth and approves/is going along with this?

You wouldn’t believe some of the shit some women will come out with to appear woke and an ally. Do you remember that guy who was writing on Facebook about how he wants to simulate a pregnancy and was bitching because his estranged wife (whom he still lived with along with his kids) wouldn’t play along and let him ‘go into labour” in their house. He then started talking about breastfeeding and how he was so sad he’d never get to experience it and there were legit some handmaidens on there offering to let him ‘breastfeed’ their own babies. Apparently, ‘not a newborn but my 5-month old, sure’. These women should have their kids removed from them imo but I can definitely imagine some woke types being totally supportive of it.

This is the one:

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/princess-mom

It’s gross how many women are indulging this sick weirdo but the offering of your own baby so that some man can indulge a delusion that he’s female goes beyond the pale. Child abuse.

I remember the hassle I had when my DC were babies and lactose intolerant, we were warned against soya formula because of something to do with hormones in it? I couldn't breastfeed because I was taking particular prescription drugs, am I right in remembering that you are advised against certain over the counter painkillers too?

The comments under that DM article are ratcheting up.

All of them outraged and fuming.

For many it's the first time they've heard of 'chest feeding'. And it's having the expected effect.

LLL's reputation is fast becoming a joke - I hope they're aware.

You wouldn’t believe some of the shit some women will come out with to appear woke and an ally. Do you remember that guy who was writing on Facebook about how he wants to simulate a pregnancy and was bitching because his estranged wife (whom he still lived with along with his kids) wouldn’t play along and let him ‘go into labour” in their house. He then started talking about breastfeeding and how he was so sad he’d never get to experience it and there were legit some handmaidens on there offering to let him ‘breastfeed’ their own babies. Apparently, ‘not a newborn but my 5-month old, sure’. These women should have their kids removed from them imo but I can definitely imagine some woke types being totally supportive of it

Oh god yes that one, didn't it all go a bit wrong in the end? Not long or painful enough etc ? Another fine example of the logical conclusion that you end up at when supporting without question.

I dont know whether to laugh or cry at the faux ignorance on this kind of article. I mean I guess they cant come right out and say certain things, but to not even hint at a question behind the potential motivation for some, Kind of makes the whole article sound like a lie.