Drag everywhere

[ImaSababa]

Why has drag become the go-to LGBTQ activity? It's everywhere.

Manchester Jewish Museum's nod to the movement is a drag act called Chanukah Lewinsky. Call me a spoilsport, but I'd like to think that we LBGT Jews have contributed more to the fabric of culture and society than a fucking drag queen.

Just wanted to rant, really.

See, I agree, yes it is a costume.
As in, dress up.
That's where we're different though - I see it as no different to any other character dressing up.
I don't find it offensive, I don't think people are taking the piss out of me just because they're dressed up, which people have been doing for centuries, whether it be acting, drag, or whatever.
I appreciate others are offended by it though.

Drag queens are an expression of extreme femininity

Extreme stereotypes of femininity. That is all men can ever do/have/appropriate.

There is nothing truly womanly about drag.

Just realised my comment could be misread -
Meant
Yes it is a costume, as in drag,
Being a woman isn't a costume, you're right
I don't see drag as a pisstake of women.
Just dressing up like actors do and I'm not offended at them "pretending to be someone else."

Drag queens are an expression of extreme femininity Extreme stereotypes of femininity. That is all men can ever do/have/appropriate. There is nothing truly womanly about drag

I don't think they pretend to be anything else though?
I mean, they're not saying they're a woman.
From what I've seen, it's a character.
So when they're playing the part, they're a she. Just like in a play.
They're not saying they're actually a woman.

An actor pretends to be another human, maybe a real person or fictional character.

Drag is more comparable with clowns. ie. gross parodies of humans with too much make up. And both (clowns and drag) are supposed to be funny!

Fucking not though.

I suppose an actor might play the part of a drag queen.

Priscilla Queen of the Desert springs to mind.

Hi Michy, I'm homosexual and I can assure you that criticising drag isn't homophobic. Loads of gay men as well as lesbians hate it. Please don't appropriate us.

Drag isn’t always supposed to be funny. I’ve been to drag shows and most of them dressed up as a celebrity singer (Cher, Dolly Parton, Beyoncé, etc) and performed a tribute act.

@Quaagars

See, I agree, yes it is a costume. As in, dress up. That's where we're different though - I see it as no different to any other character dressing up. I don't find it offensive, I don't think people are taking the piss out of me just because they're dressed up, which people have been doing for centuries, whether it be acting, drag, or whatever. I appreciate others are offended by it though.

You're right. It's no different to any other character dressing up blackface

It's also not just dressing up. It's a combination of dressing up as appropriating women's clothing, misogynistic names and parodies that belittle, humiliate and cause hurt to women. See above for horrendous examples RE abortion. I mean.... abortion!!!!

As other posters have said, if the identity of woman were swapped for any other sector of society in this 'art form' it would be utterly unacceptable and undoubtedly classed as hate speech

In my opinion, obviously. It's clear other women think otherwise...

I think if you're having trouble understanding why drag is offensive to women, it helps to imagine a drag act performing as a trans woman in exactly the same way as drag acts represent women. So you start with a 'joke' name. Say 'Mrs Deballes' or something like that. You dress in a way that plays on the worst stereotype of trans women you can think of . Say Babs from league of gentlemen. Then you women talk about issues that affect only trans women such as surgery, dilation etc in as crude and graphic a way as possible and play it for laughs. Maybe have a bloodied dilator slip out of your too short, too tight skirt and down your thick, hairy man thighs.
Would that be funny?
I don't. I think it would be horrifically transphobic and anyone doing that would be an arse hole.. I supposeif the performer claimed they were doing it out of a deep admiration for trans women.As a tribute.Then it wouldbe fine.To be lauded even.Anyone complaining would just be a miserable prude right?

TThat's to Quaagars btw.

I think if you're having trouble understanding why drag is offensive to women

I said

I appreciate others are offended by it

As in, I can see why others are offended by it.
Not sure where you're getting I'm having trouble understanding?
I said I do appreciate some are offended, feel mocked, personally attacked.
Total opposite to not understanding.
It's clear that not everyone sees it the same.

For me drag is quite a lot like stand-up. Sometimes it is smart and thought-provoking, sometimes it is crass and offensive. In some cases it's a sort of tribute to a feminine aesthetic (with different races, body shapes and cultures represented - thinking of RuPaul's drag race), and other times, even some of the the bawdiest, 'cheap laughs' acts are making fun of gender stereotypes. At least none of them is claiming to be an actual woman...

It's because Quaagars, you seem to think it's just a matter of opinion. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a fact. If anyone was to perform the hypothetical drag act I described. That personwould rightlybe vilified. Would never work again.May even be arrested.
Yet drag performers are doing the exact same thing, being pushed into the mainstream and we're all supposed to be just fine with it.
How about picking a name, any name from the list of those honoured on Transgender Day of Remembrance, and making a funny pun of it to call an act?
Is that offensive or is a matter of opinion?
Why is it OK to do that to JonBenet Ramsey?

I said I do appreciate some are offended, feel mocked, personally attacked.
Total opposite to not understanding.
It's clear that not everyone sees it the same.

The mere mention of the word 'mother' can apparently cause 'harm' to individuals and therefore organisations have decided it's better to avoid using that word altogether (I think that's wrong btw), but I use that example to demonstrate how tiny perceived slights against one (very small) group can lead to global action by organisations to make sure the feelings of those people aren't hurt. Meanwhile countless women are penalised by that decision and their complaints are ignore and in this instance, despite many women saying drag is deeply offensive (and Jarnsaxa's and Coffee's posts explains many of the reasons why) drag appears to be undergoing a renaissance in popular culture with big name brands embracing it and councils encouraging children to enjoy performative women hating.

It is clear to me what this is about and it isn't equality, it's misogyny.

What's not to find offensive with drag queens on Jimmy Carr's show at the end of 2019 asking the question about 'fishy' on National tv. And in providing the answer, wafted their hands over their crotches and wrinkling their nose....

Nah. I don't buy the alternative meaning of the term as it is used now.

I do wonder why people don't equate it with black face though.

I do agree that the hypocrisy of it all is really quite appalling. You can't simultaneously tell women that "Chanukah Lewinsky" and terms like "fishy" are just a laugh ("don't be so sensitive!") and then get upset about the smallest perceived slight.

However, I will never be on the side of the cancellers. While these things are pretty offensive to me, I don't have the right to silence people. The exception is where things are paid for with public money or happening in public spaces (e.g. the BBC / schools / libraries / museums). Then yes I think we definitely have the right to question that.

@Shedbuilder

Hi Michy, I'm homosexual and I can assure you that criticising drag isn't homophobic. Loads of gay men as well as lesbians hate it. Please don't appropriate us.

This- gay men have spent years trying to affirm that gay =\= effeminate, and now the Drag juggernaut is trying to be the face of gay culture and diversity.

Drag is offensive to some women, and not offensive to other women.
Whether it is offensive is an opinion, not a fact.

Btw, I don’t think women’s clothes can be “appropriated” because there are no sex assigned clothes, makeup, etc- these are all based on gender stereotypes that we should be erasing instead of policing.

I do wonder why people don't equate it with black face though.

Because, throughout history, blackface has been done purely to insult and mock black people. And it's typically been done alongside the mass murder, enslavement, rape etc. of black people.

Yes women have also been subjected to gross human rights abuses throughout history but "womanface" is not something that has been a major part of that oppression. Men have been participating extreme femininity (make up, wigs, dresses) for a long time, often simply as a means of self-expression and to escape rigid masculine stereotypes. The people who have engaged in drag have typically been marginalised people (e.g. gay men) and have often been stigmatised for doing so.

That's not to say that I don't think some drag is misogynistic, I do. But in my opinion it's not the same as blackface.

Drag is offensive to some women, and not offensive to other women.
Whether it is offensive is an opinion, not a fact.

You could say that about all sorts of things that affect particular groups. Some trans people do not consider themselves to be biological women but everyone is currently required to sign up to the TWAW dictate, or else they are rounded on and tarred with 'bigot', and in some circumstances lose their jobs. It's about the value you place on people's feelings. The value of women's concerns about the misogyny inherent in drag is currently zero.

Drag on television is nothing like drag in clubs and bars. Some is fine, just singing in a sparkly frock and genuinely nice people, but some is absolutely vile. I've seen drag queens with a bucket between their legs pulling out a blood covered baby doll pretending to be a girl from a council estate...... Hey that's not funny, it's gross.

Women are NOT a protected group.
‘Fraud they are in the UK.

We are not even a minority.
Plenty of cases in history of majority groups being marginalised and/or exploited - Apartheid ring any bells?

Claiming victimhood where none exists is starting to get embarrassing. Embarrassing for whom?

You could say that about all sorts of things that affect particular groups. Some trans people do not consider themselves to be biological women but everyone is currently required to sign up to the TWAW dictate, or else they are rounded on and tarred with 'bigot', and in some circumstances lose their jobs. It's about the value you place on people's feelings. The value of women's concerns about the misogyny inherent in drag is currently zero

But the people who compare drag to blackface in an attempt to get it cancelled are also complaining that they are being cancelled/called bigots for not believing that TWAW. If you are in the business of cancellation it'll come back to bite you at some point.

@Signalbox

You could say that about all sorts of things that affect particular groups. Some trans people do not consider themselves to be biological women but everyone is currently required to sign up to the TWAW dictate, or else they are rounded on and tarred with 'bigot', and in some circumstances lose their jobs. It's about the value you place on people's feelings. The value of women's concerns about the misogyny inherent in drag is currently zero

But the people who compare drag to blackface in an attempt to get it cancelled are also complaining that they are being cancelled/called bigots for not believing that TWAW. If you are in the business of cancellation it'll come back to bite you at some point.

Women should just put up and shut up, right?