Repost of the different arguments made by various trans inclusive feminist women in the last thread
No 1:
You don't understand their journey:
think it helps when you know someone who is trans, while trans people aren't supposed to enlighten us, understanding their journey certainly helps.
No 2: this never happens, your fears are exaggerated, there's no reason for people to be trans if not genuine:
RE the bathroom debate. I don't see this as predatory. a Man could just don a high vis jacket and a mop and mope around in the toilets if they wanted to harass us.
No 3: all sexual assault should be punished and there are already laws:
Anyone who assaults a woman in a bathroom should be punished and face the full extent of the law.
No 4: defining women too narrowly goes against feminist ideas of bodily autonomy:
rather the exclusion of trans women in our society seems to go against the right and expression of our bodies.
No 5: we have more important stuff to worry about:
Trans women make up 1 in 300 of women roughly. I'd rather focus our feminism on equal pay, representation in the board room. The right to access to abortion across Europe (Hi Poland).
No 6: woman can't be defined easily so male people can be women
I don't agree they are "appropriating" womanhood. There's no one way to be a woman.
No 7: what about transmen, do you want them in the women's loos, how would you tell they weren't actual men without genital inspections:
How do you know Transmen are trans? There is no genital inspector at the loos and I ain't living in a reality where there is one.
Your argument means that nontrans men could use the women's bathroom, how would we know?
No 8: some women who once claimed to be GC have denounced you now pal about with TRAs and think you are mean
I'll leave you with this. https://medium.com/@amydyess83*/prodigal-butch-7f0d2e00f6933^
No 9: feminism isn't just for women it's for everyone
I believe feminism is not just for women, but simply to ensure equal rights for everyone.
No 10: sex is a spectrum
I see sex/gender as a continuum. I know most of society doesn't, but that is my pov. Therefore, it's possible to be at one end or the other (man or woman) but that there is a lot of room between the two polar opposites. IMO, most of us are somewhere between the two. I'm nearer the 'woman' end, some are nearer the middle.
No 11: it's not my business what they do so they should access female spaces if they want to
If someone respects my choices about my life, I don't want to interfere with their choices. If they wish to identify as a woman and respect me/my choices, I accept them in female spaces.
No 12: they just want to pee
they are likely in the women's toilet to pee, NOT to enforce their 'maleness' on women. CIS men do that everyday, with wolf whistles, sexism, sexual assault, rape et al. They don't need to wear a dress to do it.
No 13: woman has different meanings in different places
I've lived in 3 different cultures. Yes, 'woman' is different in each one.
No 14: your bioessential view of sex means women who have no uterus aren't women
Due to cancer, I have no female reproductive tissue of any type left. If being a woman is biology, I'm no longer a woman, I'm a husk
No 15: I see everyone as of equal value (with implication that others don't)
I don’t place women’s worth above men’s, I see them as being of equal value, but with the society we live in not reflecting that.
No 16: no one cares as much as FWR about this issue
In my experience, most feminists, including myself, don't think in nearly so much detail about trans women in comparison to those on the mumsnet feminism board.
No 17: you think they are all perverts
t's not about worrying if that trans woman is actually a pervert.
No 18: trans people are more oppressed than women so should be priority
In my opinion this is a really difficult issue with no easy solution. The need for women's rights shouldn't negate any other (far more marginalised) groups rights or ability to live their life integrated within society.
No 19: it's good enough for the Women's Institute
Transinclusive femininism from the WI is on the basis of equality. That good enough for you?
No 20: some oppression is due to perception as female which is about gender, not sex, so MTF trans people have a shared experience
You must have seen the viral post about a bloke who accidentaly took over his colleagues inbox and discovered how much harder it was for her to deal with annoying clients, who then became docile once he used his own name rather than hers.
Thats not sex-based, thats gender.
No 21: people have a right to identify how they want to and it's our role as feminists to always be there, and to make sure people know we accept them
Gonna leave this here bye.
No 22: why are you obsessed with chromosomes
separating bathrooms by chromosomes is ridiculous.
No 23: I personally have lovely trans friends
I am a lifelong feminist and I met a transgender woman a few years ago who has since become a fantastic friend.
No 24: TWAW! get over it!
As far as I am concerned transgender women are women, full stop. I think that is what so many here are refusing to admit.
No 25: I don't care about labels
damn about labels and see herself as gender fluid
No 26: other women are happy to accept TWAW
The support group I was in accepted t women as women.
No 27: my trans inclusive views aren't accepted here so you are the Patriarchy in action
Patriarchy at its finest.
I think I've captured them all, most arguments made are variations on the same themes.