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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The March of Wokeism, Trevor Phillips in The Times

87 replies

Igneococcus · 07/11/2020 07:09

Have not read it fully yet but Trevor Phillips is always worth reading:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dfbee358-2045-11eb-8696-f5d5fcef88fd?shareToken=be75bc761cb78af2c93e38c62b7a0589

OP posts:
SophocIestheFox · 07/11/2020 08:01

I just finished reading that, it’s an absolute belter!

HecatesCats · 07/11/2020 08:25

Thanks for sharing OP. Powerful final paragraph:

The greatest tragedy in all of this is that the gurus of wokedom have persuaded thousands of idealistic young people who rightly want to change the world into supporting what is actually a deeply reactionary movement. The trans activists can only realise their aim of being able to enter spaces reserved for women by erasing the female sex. Critical race theory remains credible only so long as black and brown people continue to fail. In the end, the woke movement is turning into an echo of the very oppressors it claims to be combating. After all the statues come down, and women’s prisons are opened to all and sundry, the celebrities and social media warriors will move on to the next fashionable cause — and minorities will still be less likely to win the top jobs, and women will still be the victims of violence. The only thing that will have changed is the bitterness of a generation whose idealism was betrayed.

ChattyLion · 07/11/2020 09:19

I’ve always used ‘contrary’ as a compliment and I admire him for standing up for what he believes when he could just shut up and be a part of the Labour establishment and take the accolades, after the career he’s had. He’s contrary AF. Hope he carries on with that.

anotherhumanfemale · 07/11/2020 09:21

What does he mean by "Critical race theory remains credible so long as black and brown people continue to fail."?

BolloxtoGender · 07/11/2020 09:25

Then they can claim that black and brown people fail because of structural racism/white supremacy/capitalism.

Igmum · 07/11/2020 09:50

Excellent article which highlights a key problem with woke-ism. A renewed focus on material reality would help to counter this

Imnobody4 · 07/11/2020 10:01

Absolutely brilliant article and very relevant to this new consultation. Trevor Phillips is involved with Index of Censorship so I bet they'll be responding.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4071870-new-consultation-freedom-of-speech-hate-speech

HumphreyCobblers · 07/11/2020 10:05

I thought it was a great article. Cheered me right up after going on Twitter in the early hours!

ChattyLion · 07/11/2020 10:39

I hadn’t realised Trevor Philips is chair of the Trustees of Index on censorship. I’ve linked to a thread below about their aim of starting activities to talk about genderism and silencing of women. (My paraphrase- they certainly haven’t put it like that) But I feel more confident knowing that they have some Trustees who will get it. Also hopeful given that the deputy Chair of Trustees is Kate Maltby.

My hope is that Index on Censorship might do a fairer job of their aim of ‘making space for dialogue’ on genderism and how it affects women with the oversight of sensible Trustees. If Kate Maltby is who I think she is, she’s had her own experiences of sexual harassment and male power and the backlash if women speak out, and those experiences tend to let women know at a very deep level, what a woman is.
There is a fundamental incompatibility of beliefs here I think, so even though trying to have beliefs able to be spoken freely is absolutely democratically essential and #nodebate is outrageous when genderism fundamentally and negatively affects women.. we also (especially in light of the threats to freedom of speech!) need as an urgent priority to have clear legal protections to ensure women’s safety, dignity and privacy and our ability to have single sex opportunities and spaces.. and it will also be legal changes which reverse institutional/regulatory capture where institutions have been trying to ‘get ahead of the law’ to the detriment of women.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4052977-Index-for-censorship-plans-for-dialogue-on-trans-issue?pg=2

NonnyMouse1337 · 07/11/2020 10:48

@anotherhumanfemale

What does he mean by "Critical race theory remains credible so long as black and brown people continue to fail."?
Advocates of Critical Race Theory absolutely hate it when black and brown people are successful, and don't feel there's some awful spectre of racism holding them back. CRT doesn't really want black and brown people to genuinely succeed because if they did, it would prove that there isn't such a thing as systemic racism, white supremacy etc that is to blame for all the ills in the world. You need perpetual victims to perpetuate the narrative of victimhood. (And make lots of money selling books about it). CRT fails to explain why some ethnic minorities are doing really well, and others aren't. Such people are labelled 'white adjacent'.
WeetabixBananaHipsterFFS · 07/11/2020 11:07

Excellent piece and bonus points for (?coining) the term ‘ethno-masochism’.

McDuffy · 07/11/2020 11:47

Wish he was prime minister!

persistentwoman · 07/11/2020 11:49

That was a really good read. It beggars belief that he is suspended by the Labour party - yet they expect us all to line up and vote for them. Idiots.

BolloxtoGender · 07/11/2020 12:05

A renewed focus on material reality would help to counter this

^^@igmum. Yes, I’ve been thinking this also, absolutely agree with this and also Integrity, doing the right thing when no one is looking, totally not what virtual signalling is about.

DidoLamenting · 07/11/2020 12:37

@persistentwoman

That was a really good read. It beggars belief that he is suspended by the Labour party - yet they expect us all to line up and vote for them. Idiots.
I know. I wonder if Starmer has made any approaches to him.
Melroses · 07/11/2020 12:43

@WeetabixBananaHipsterFFS

Excellent piece and bonus points for (?coining) the term ‘ethno-masochism’.
Yes that was good.
queenofknives · 07/11/2020 12:46

Fantastic article. I especially liked this very clear point:

This perfectly sums up the gap between the woke self-image and reality. The woke affect to care for the excluded, yet cannot find room for talented people of colour in their own ranks. They present themselves as passionate campaigners for justice, yet they are ready to yield to the whims of the mob and dole out summary retribution to anyone deemed a heretic. They claim to be the allies of the oppressed, yet have no time to listen to their real priorities. They purport to seek greater diversity, yet require all women or all ethnic minorities to share their view or be branded quislings.

Sex — “the trans debate” — remains a hot issue but race was the principal battleground
I think this is true in a sense, in that race is a key battleground because it also affects men. Sex has not been the principal battleground if you are male and not trans. But I think that he - like so many of the men talking about this stuff - are still failing to see how fundamental the trans issue has been and continues to be - and how the kind of campaigning done by TRAs (#nodebate) has created actual institutional and pseudo-legal inroads into society at the deepest levels, which other wokery are now obviously taking advantage of, but which have been affecting everyone's lives for a long time now. However, he does at least, not quibble over the key point wrt to sex/gender.

IDanielRadcliffe · 07/11/2020 12:56

Fantastic article, thanks for sharing.

queenofknives · 07/11/2020 13:08

Advocates of Critical Race Theory absolutely hate it when black and brown people are successful, and don't feel there's some awful spectre of racism holding them back.

Yes - there are a load of racist names for men like Trevor Phillips who don't behave in the way they're told and don't hold the opinions that others believe they should have. It's unbelievably racist and incredibly patronising.

They (the woke) think they have the right to tell us (people in general) what to think. Not only that, they believe they know what we really think better than we do! They think it's "pathological" when women or minority groups don't go along with the stereotypes they have created for them, by not being victimised and broken failures, but actually happy, successful, individuals with voices who can speak for themselves.

They are trying to destroying the advances we've made in social justice over the last 100 years. Even in my lifetime, I have witnessed huge changes in attitudes and opinions and laws that protect equality for all. Things have changed SO much for the better - it's really awful to see this generation just trashing all the advances that have been made, making the world worse, and calling it 'progress'.

ChattyLion · 07/11/2020 13:12

Agreed Igmum and Bollox

HecatesCats · 07/11/2020 13:23

@BolloxtoGender

A renewed focus on material reality would help to counter this

^^@igmum. Yes, I’ve been thinking this also, absolutely agree with this and also Integrity, doing the right thing when no one is looking, totally not what virtual signalling is about.

And re-embracing critical thinking. Proponents of gender ideology seem to suspend their disbelief all too easily.
Maireas · 07/11/2020 13:25

A really interesting article, thank you OP. Some excellent points. I've always found Phillips to be intelligent and reflective. I agree "ethno masochism" is a good phrase.

andyoldlabour · 07/11/2020 14:12

Thanks OP, Trevor Phillips always seems to hit the nail on the head.

MaudTheInvincible · 07/11/2020 14:22

They are trying to destroying the advances we've made in social justice over the last 100 years. Even in my lifetime, I have witnessed huge changes in attitudes and opinions and laws that protect equality for all. Things have changed SO much for the better - it's really awful to see this generation just trashing all the advances that have been made, making the world worse, and calling it 'progress'.

Yes, really disheartening to see such regressive opinions gain traction. I have to console myself with the idea that it seems to be the way of progress that we take two steps forward and one step back, and this too shall pass.

Maireas · 07/11/2020 15:19

He makes a good point about the murder of Samuel Platy and the voices that were critical of Platy rather than the radical Islamists.