Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

School Transgender policies

55 replies

Purpler5 · 29/10/2020 19:31

Has anyone looked at any school transgender policies?

I just found one that defined sex as

“the way a person’s body appears, sometimes wrongly, to indicate their gender”.

I’m new to these discussions but surely this definition is.... I can’t even think of the word....Weird? Unnecessarily complicated?

Honestly, who comes up with this stuff?!

OP posts:
ChickenonaMug · 29/10/2020 20:15

How is that definition going to do anything but seriously confuse children?

Have you seen some of the other things that are being taught to children? This resource has a good look at some of the stuff . It is long but it looks like SSA are planning a part two.
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2020/10/25/new-ssa-uk-guidance-on-schools-rse-and-pshe-resources/?fbclid=IwAR3oMH9cM187KhKi4_9-oFluPJwk4JdjMp3r_6SO9fauwIbgcr4zGm1XjU8

NiceGerbil · 29/10/2020 20:17

How do they teach biology ffs

Original poster
Purpler5 · 29/10/2020 20:33

Thanks for that link @ChickenonaMug I’ll definitely have a proper read of that.

Does anyone know if schools have to disclose who their PHSE provider is? Do they all have an external provider?

I can’t find it on my DC’s school website but don’t necessarily want to go requesting it if I can find it somewhere.

OP posts:
persistentwoman · 29/10/2020 21:11

OP, schools have a mix and match with PSHE. Some use their own materials and some buy in packages. They should all have an SRE policy and a pastoral care policy and parents should be consulted about the SRE policy. They should all be accessible on the school's website.

It's worth knowing that local authorities have been busy removing trans guidances all over the country after they have been subject to legal challenge about the dangerous anti safeguarding, anti girl aspects of them. See here:
safeschoolsallianceuk.net/legal-action-against-oxfordshire-county-council/

HairyRrug · 29/10/2020 21:16

I think they all buy in teaching materials. Last year I could find the name of our primary's provider on their website but no detail. They've now shared the RSE policy for parents' comment (so I'm commenting.) Now would be a good/easy time to ask to see it as iirc they have to send it to parents before implementing it in/before September 2021.

HairyRrug · 29/10/2020 21:22

Sorry. Not quick enough. (Or knowledgeable Smile) Thanks persistentwoman.

SimoneAndGarfunkel · 29/10/2020 21:40

Yes that is weird and not what sex means.

It also seems dangerously close to the "wrong body" narrative that is now banned in schools.

While teachers should not suggest to a child that their non-compliance with gender stereotypes means that either their personality or their body is wrong and in need of changing.

www.gov.uk/guidance/plan-your-relationships-sex-and-health-curriculum#ensuring-content-is-appropriate

HairyRrug · 29/10/2020 21:56

Yes, i think they're making it easy for the argument to be knocked down. If you start saying sex isn't gender, well what is gender other than stereotypes? And DfE guidance says no stereotypes.

NRatched · 29/10/2020 23:31

I just found one that defined sex as

“the way a person’s body appears, sometimes wrongly, to indicate their gender”.

Oh honestly Hmm

This is getting more and more ridiculous by the day now.

ClarenceBoddicker · 29/10/2020 23:42

It’s not very scientific. What do they teach in biology these days? This is what pisses me off. I realise there is a political dynamic and we’re in the middle of a culture war. If someone chooses to disagree with someone else then fine but can we stick to facts?

MiladyRenata · 29/10/2020 23:47

Can we start by, maybe, not deciding that 50% of our kids must be:

Forced to play contact sports
Made to wear their hair short
Made to wear ties
Called by their surnames instead of their first names
Beaten up by the lads from the local comprehensive because they happen to be wearing the uniform of the local grammar school.
Generally bullied all the time.

because of their chromosomes? Just a thought.

ClarenceBoddicker · 29/10/2020 23:48

I’m probably with the majority on here but at least it one point it was about ‘gender’ rather than sex even if they traditionally were the same thing. Actually just looked up gender now in the dictionary online and it’s been nobbled! But sex surely can not be changed as a definition. It’s scientific facts and denying it is like believing in creationism or being a flat earthier who the liberal types usually like to make fun of

ClarenceBoddicker · 29/10/2020 23:51

Flat earthers get all kinds of shit. Dumb. Thick. Deranged. At odds with reality (that earth is a sphere). But when trans crazies are at odds with reality they’re not only given sympathy but sane people actually argue their case

ClarenceBoddicker · 29/10/2020 23:58

Why is the political trans movement given any more credibility than flat earthers or David Icke or Scientologists etc etc etc. I added the political bit as know there are many trans people who aren’t nutters and want a gentle life and are pissed off being thrown into this. They would say they suffer from dysmorphia but never claim to be a ‘real’ woman / man as a biological one

MiladyRenata · 30/10/2020 00:05

@ClarenceBoddicker

OK, apologies to others if this is off topic.

No, you can't change sex. That's the problem. It's hard coded in the brain. Trans women have female brains. And, of course, male typical bodies.

Four decades of trying to live as "male" taught me that it can't be done if you have a female brain. I can't change that brain - if somehow I could it would make me a different person which of course I don't want.

Four decades at war with myself, and then realising that I'm a woman.

It's not fun, it's not a whim and it's not a choice. Trans women are women.

EverydayDrudge · 30/10/2020 00:24

@MiladyRenata okay I'll bite. Should you be allowed to play rugby against the type of women who are born with female typical bodies?

Apollo440 · 30/10/2020 00:28

Female brains? Yeah right. Or you could just be a male that thinks like you do.

OldCrone · 30/10/2020 00:28

Trans women have female brains.

How is a female brain different from a male brain? And how does a female brain end up in a male body?

MiladyRenata · 30/10/2020 00:37

Like most women, I personally don't want to play rugby with anyone! Please see my post just a few slots above.

As it happens, I think that safety considerations can be a valid reason for trans women not playing contact sports with other women. Even if they wanted to!

MiladyRenata · 30/10/2020 00:38

Back to my earlier points, what is it about XY chromosomes that mean it's OK if you get beaten up at school because boys will be boys?

EverydayDrudge · 30/10/2020 00:43

Literally nobody here is saying they think it's okay that boys are violent towards one another.

MiladyRenata · 30/10/2020 00:43

@Oldcrone

Very good question (and one I have pondered for many years).

I think that gender is a bit like sexual orientation. It's set up a certain way in the brain, and happens to correlate with one's physical biology most, but not all, of the time.

So sometimes you get a mismatch, which we call "gender dysphoria". It's only a "disorder" if society expects XY people to be men and XX people to be women. Much like we used to think same sex attraction was a disorder but now, thankfully, we don't.

Hope that helps a bit.

OldCrone · 30/10/2020 00:48

It's only a "disorder" if society expects XY people to be men and XX people to be women.

But people with XY chromosomes are men (or boys) and people with XX chromosomes are women (or girls). It's biology. It's nothing to do with society.

MiladyRenata · 30/10/2020 00:52

@Oldcrone

Explain the chromosomal basis of the phrase "man up"

EverydayDrudge · 30/10/2020 00:56

So if it's not your biological body, what is a woman?