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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

EHRC report investigation into antisemitism in the Labour Party

140 replies

FindTheTruth · 29/10/2020 10:12

Published just now:

EHRC Investigation into antisemitism in the Labour Party
www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/publication-download/investigation-antisemitism-labour-party

OP posts:
Typesofcatalogue · 30/10/2020 09:06

Keir didn’t make the decision to suspend Corbyn. The Labour national executive committee and its chair did.

a shitstorm of bogus allegations in order to demonise figures in the party they want to get rid of. It is all about delegitimising narratives which conflict with the ruling class ideology.

The movers and shakers behind the Labour smears, the “Campaign Against Antisemitism” and “Jewish Labour Movement” are misnamed: they are not a campaign against antisemitism or a representation organisation of Jewish workers, they are hardline pro-Israel lobby groups

BlackForestCake You are part of the problem. Denying and minimising the antisemitism and harassment the report highlights in the Labour Party. You are conflating opposing antisemitism with being pro-Israel.

People like you also seek to delegitimise the existence of Israel - the only Jewish country of 8 million people amongst the 18 countries/ 400 million people of the Middle East.

The anti Semitic harassment Luciana Berger suffered from her own party is real. You are a disgrace.

Typesofcatalogue · 30/10/2020 09:22

@DrDreReturns

Many are accusing KS of Zionism. The hard left are obsessed with Israel! Why?
Zionism is basically the belief that Israel has the right to exist where it does.

Ultra Zionism policies of the current Israeli government has lead to further encroachment on Palestinian Territories which is wrong. But you can criticise the Israeli government policies without trying to delegitimise its entire existence.

The ‘hard left’ (as you call them!) are anti Semitic and one way they express this is to deny the right of Israel - the only Jewish country in the world - to exist.

DrDreReturns · 30/10/2020 09:35

@typesofcatalogue I understand that. I don't get why they are so obsessed with it as opposed to, for example, the case for the Kurdish people to have their own state.

CaptainMarvelDanvers · 30/10/2020 09:54

[quote DrDreReturns]@typesofcatalogue I understand that. I don't get why they are so obsessed with it as opposed to, for example, the case for the Kurdish people to have their own state.[/quote]
Because of anti-semitism, it’s ingrained - even if it is casual.

Throughout history and in countries across Europe, one group of people have been the targets of genocide attempts time and time again.

I watched the video of Corbyn throwing around the word Zionist this Zionist that, as a (now former) Labour member who voted for him to be the Labour leader what I saw was him using the word Zionist in place of the word Jew. I called it out on Twitter and it blew up, got called all lovely names and threats and insinuations that I was a Russian shill. I didn’t vote for Labour in the last general election.

Helmetbymidnight · 30/10/2020 11:00

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DrDreReturns · 30/10/2020 11:21

@CaptainMarvelDanvers thanks that's clearer. You'd have hoped that wouldn't be a thing anymore but perhaps I'm being naive.

nosswith · 30/10/2020 11:22

I think it has a lot do with feminism. Those most guilty seemed to be targeting women far more than men.

happygolurkey · 30/10/2020 11:25

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SugarPlumElf · 30/10/2020 12:00

@howard97A

RedDogsBeg: Wouldn't it be lovely if similar action was taken against those who are mercilessly bullying women for non compliance to the TRA agenda and ideology. I somehow doubt that the EHRC would be the slightest bit interested in investigating that.

According to the Report (pp 205-6), Labour Party members said the effect of Ken Livingstone’s comments “was humiliating, denied the victims’ experience, diminished the issue, had the effect of stirring up and fuelling hatred for Jews and contributed to the creation of a hostile and intimidating environment for Jewish Labour Party members.” (pp 105-5 of the Report)
I think that if this subjective perception of Ken Livingston's actions is the basis of the conclusion that his words were "antisemitic" then by the same shaky standard most posters on FWR (including me) are "transphobic". And I wouldn't be surprised if the next people on the EHRC agenda were feminist organizations expressing the “ highly offensive” view that biological males can't be women.

Regardless of whether you are on the left or the right, or your actual views on the Middle East/Israel/trangender issues , I think @howard97A and @BlackForestCake are right that the kinds of arguments used in the EHRC report could easily be used against gender critical women.

Anyone defending Rosie Duffield, or claiming that her opponents are trying to smear her, could be argued to be transphobic just as Livingstone is condemned for defending Naz Shah, especially if Duffield like Shah were to apologise for what she said (because the EHRC seem to think the apology is relevant).

So think about that. You defend a woman MP for something others argue is "transphobic". She is then put under pressure and apologises for her "transphobia". Complaints against you then claim that you are transphobic yourself because you tried to justify her. If you have claimed that she was being "smeared" then that is also evidence of your transphobia, because belittling claims of transphobia and claiming they are "smears" is itself transphobic.

I don't think bullying should be acceptable. But I do think it's dangerously illiberal for bodies like the EHRC to start deciding what is "legitimate" when it comes to discussing political/rights issues. And because you may agree with their analysis in one case, doesn't mean that you will agree in others.

Helmetbymidnight · 30/10/2020 13:12

not rubbish- ime the fiercest corbyn is innocent- jews are just manipulative/confused- types happened to be the most vocal TWAW.
its kinda nice that they're all ripping up their membership now. ive high hopes for the future.

stumbledin · 30/10/2020 15:22

As with the Labour Party itself it depends who you listen to.

Many Jewish members of the Labour Party do not support the suspension of Jeremy Corbyn, nor do they think he, as an individual is anti semitic.

The EHRC actually found to proceedural processes that didnot deal properly with complaints of anti semitism. This is why the Labour Party is on notice to comply within (cant remember the date).

A quick google would easily find you example of how some members of the Labour Party who are Jewish think what Starmar has done is wrong. www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/statement/the-ehrc-report-an-interim-response/

Personally I dont think Jeremy Corbyn could organise himself out of a paper bag, and has spent so long being a sort of saint to some strands of the left I dont think he thinks he actually has to do anything but make emotive speeches. His response to the report (which by the way said Labour members had the right to voice individual opinions) was more about him being entranced by his own wonderfulness and propping that up, rather than saying yes we should have done more to make sure complaint procedures were not only in place but worked. (Compared to say how quickly some women got expelled.)

Many members of the Labour party and other political parties and those not in political parties do question the legitimacy of Israel and are ashamed of the treatment of the Palestinian people. And this is not just a human rights issue, but because Israel is a creation of British colonialism) ie the British who along with the French had taken over what had been lands administered by the ottoman empire then decided how they would divide up the lands to suit themselves. And they also took the opportunity to solve what was after all European anti semitism spearheaded by Nazi germany to export our failure to protect Jewish communities by telling another group of people who were not part of this, you should give up your lands because we want to export our problem onto to you. And the expansion of Israel and the occupation of Palestinian land can not be justified.

There is another thread on here about this, but this is why the IHRA was such a toxic discussion in the Labour party as many people feel it is used to stop any criticism of Israel by saying it is anti semitic to do so. And by they way, the man who wrote it also says it has been misused. And far from being an agreed international standard has only been adopted by a minority of countries.

But over and above everything, the whole issue has been massively manipulated by the main stream media, who as part of their deriding of Corbyn, created a sort of shit storm.

ie Luciana Berger was heckled by a left winger who didn't like her working with the Telegraph. which is much the same as women who heckle other feminists for working with right wing christian fundamentalists.

But there is no doubt that the Jewish women MPs had a terrible onslaught on oppose, but this was from the (male) public at large who will use any issue to attack women. Again this is where the Labour Party under Corbyn shot themselves in the foot (no cruel reference to Michael intended!). They actually had the figures showing abuse recieved by Jewish MPs and the vast majority was not from Party members. And then the 2 that were clearly from within the party they didn't deal with.

I am not trying to minimise the level of anti semitism in this country or to deny that in the same way as Muslim women suffer more overt islamaphobia, that Jewish women didn't get a terrible level of abuse.

But I think the way the main stream media have stoked the flames of this really painful situation has now made it unresolvable.

So we will not have an effective opposition in the UK at a time that we really need it. The idea that the Tories will carry on regardless of their blunders is as depressing as thinking Trump will be re-elcted next week.

MsSafina · 03/11/2020 08:27

There has just been an armed attack on a Synagogue in Vienna with several dead. Anyone underestimating how threatened Jews feel right now is enabling such attacks. The hard left are enablers. Islamists are their attack dogs.

bellinisurge · 03/11/2020 09:12

scare Jews out of Europe and the US and then destroy the one country that welcomes them. That's "antizionism" for you.
Spoiler alert: we've broken your code and we hear your dog whistles

MsSafina · 03/11/2020 10:41

bellinsurge - very succinctly put.

MsSafina · 03/11/2020 10:46

I attended Labour Party Conference last year. Nearly every delegate was wearing Palestinian scarves and Free Palestine badges and waving Palestinian flags. Anyone Jewish would feel extremely threatened in that environment even if they were sympathetic to Palestinians. Given that the aims of their leaders are to drive Jews out of the Middle East, which has been largely successful, and now Jews are being attacked in countries like France, there's good reason for them to feel scared.

Helmetbymidnight · 03/11/2020 11:07

Many members of the Labour party and other political parties and those not in political parties do question the legitimacy of Israel

Well, apparently many members of the Labour party and other political parties don't accept Israel has a right to exist anymore. So that's nice.

BlackForestCake · 03/11/2020 22:32

@MsSafina

There has just been an armed attack on a Synagogue in Vienna with several dead. Anyone underestimating how threatened Jews feel right now is enabling such attacks. The hard left are enablers. Islamists are their attack dogs.
This is the same argument as those who say that transsexual prostitutes in Mexico get murdered because of T*rfs. Exactly the same argument.
PhilSwagielka · 03/11/2020 22:37

There's a brilliant way to make Jews Zionists who want to make aliyah, and that's to make us feel unwelcome and unsafe in our home countries. Me, I wouldn't because the UK is my home but I can understand why other Jews want to get the hell out of places like France.

Islamists on one side, neo-Nazis on the other. A plague on both their houses.

PhilSwagielka · 03/11/2020 22:41

There's a brilliant way to make Jews Zionists who want to make aliyah, and that's to make us feel unwelcome and unsafe in our home countries. Me, I wouldn't because the UK is my home but I can understand why other Jews want to get the hell out of places like France.

Islamists on one side, neo-Nazis on the other. A plague on both their houses.

PhilSwagielka · 03/11/2020 22:42

@bellinisurge

scare Jews out of Europe and the US and then destroy the one country that welcomes them. That's "antizionism" for you. Spoiler alert: we've broken your code and we hear your dog whistles
There's a brilliant way to make Jews Zionists who want to make aliyah, and that's to make us feel unwelcome and unsafe in our home countries. Me, I wouldn't because the UK is my home but I can understand why other Jews want to get the hell out of places like France.

Islamists on one side, neo-Nazis on the other. A plague on both their houses.

PhilSwagielka · 03/11/2020 22:43

@bellinisurge

scare Jews out of Europe and the US and then destroy the one country that welcomes them. That's "antizionism" for you. Spoiler alert: we've broken your code and we hear your dog whistles
There's a brilliant way to make Jews Zionists who want to make aliyah, and that's to make us feel unwelcome and unsafe in our home countries. Me, I wouldn't because the UK is my home but I can understand why other Jews want to get the hell out of places like France.

Islamists on one side, neo-Nazis on the other. A plague on both their houses.

bellinisurge · 04/11/2020 11:25

If you don't accept Israel has a right to exist you are an antisemite. If, like lots of people within Israel, you have concerns about the policies of the Likud government, that's called democracy.
Antisemites can go fuck themselves. Not welcome in any mainstream UK political party. Or shouldn't be. Corbyn welcomed them.

xxyzz · 04/11/2020 23:22

Well, this is depressing. A few weeks ago, I argued on here that I had not seen overt Semitism on MN, now that's certainly untrue. And that's without allowing for all the posts I can't see because they've been deleted.

To clarify, I'm talking about @howard97A and @BlackForestCake and @stumbledin - only the last of those is a name I recognise as a regular poster, so I hope the others are TRAs/trolls trying to stir up trouble. If they're genuine, it's depressing that that many racists have found their way to this board. :(

I'm really shocked that this kind of racist crap is permitted to stand. There are certainly very obvious parallels between the woke left's demonisation of women and the woke left's demonisation of Jews, but to suggest that the real victim here is the anti-Semitic cabal who used to rule Labour really takes the biscuit.

Seriously, anti-Semites, eff off.

xxyzz · 04/11/2020 23:24

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xxyzz · 04/11/2020 23:25

is the hard-done by innocent.

Too angry to type coherently!

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