Alice Thomson in the Times today

[McDuffy]

All I can say is thank goodness for the comments

Let’s focus on real threats women face today

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6a8f336a-1895-11eb-a714-6e13d8ca860f?shareToken=5f80009bd7d0b12c2e40295b09438dd4

Alice ignores or doesn't understand that women are already working on the things she talks about, for many it's a full time job and career.

I only got half way through - what an idiot

I think there's an interesting contrast between Alice's professed comfort with the idea of unisex spaces, which I personally feel to be redolent with comfortable middle-class smugness at her implied insulation from adverse consequences, and the reality of today's judicial review of males in women's prisons and the horrendous attacks women prisoners have suffered because of it.

But she was wrong to say it’s like Gilead and women can’t mention the trans debate: it’s all over the media virtually every day.

Look at what happened to Rosie, whose awful treatment she herself acknowledges, for "mentioning the trans debate". I'm sure if it were a different Labour leader, she'd have been investigated, disciplined, silenced, expelled. Women have been sacked or deplatformed for their comments, while TRAs and their supporters have got away with vile misogyny.

Floisme I think you are always admirably clear and do a very good job of articulating why this matters. I am afraid Alice Thomson is just not very bright. Not the first time I’ve read one of her articles and thought that her powers of critical thinking were seriously lacking.

How does she not get it - on the one hand, women are getting all het up about nothing, and it doesn't matter if they aren't allowed a word to define themselves. On the other, let's focus on maternity - I mean, you do know this is the kind of word we're being told we can't use any more, right?

Times balance methinks. However, if you put Alice against Janice, it looks more like SpongeBob vs. Einstein. Bit unkind but Alice get a grip, get those braincells working, or you'll become an embarrassment to our sex

There seem to be a lot of women who are still under the 'Jo Swinson' impression.

A sort of eye rolly well we all know what a woman is, don't we? We know. It's obvious. Everyone knows. The fact that we can't just blurt it out, doesn't mean that we don't all know exactly who is a woman, does it? It's not really erasure. Because we do know.

But yes, Alice, it is erasure. In language, in law and in politics.

It really, really is. Don't just hand wave away Tampax' craven bowing to an ideology that erases the word woman, as insignificant. This isn't a one off. It's not irrelevant. It's a symptom, among thousands of other symptoms, exactly the same.

You go online and say a woman is an adult human female, and see what happens.

Go on Alice. Put your money where your mouth is.

Try it.

Love it, Datun
Yes, you first, Alice. Let us know how it goes.

I think there's an interesting contrast between Alice's professed comfort with the idea of unisex spaces, which I personally feel to be redolent with comfortable middle-class smugness at her implied insulation from adverse consequences, and the reality of today's judicial review of males in women's prisons and the horrendous attacks women prisoners have suffered because of it.

Exactly. It fascinates me that so many women, including ones with a higher education, are incapable of thinking beyond their own personal experience. Yes, you may be comfortable with having male-bodied people in your changing room, but do you think that applies to all women? What about women who have been sexually assaulted? What about Muslim or Jewish women whose religion forbids them baring their flesh in front of a man? What about teenage girls - should they be forced to share changing room space with male-bodied adults?

And then of course as you say there are the issues of prisons and other places housing vulnerable women, such as domestic violence shelters. But Alice will never be in those places, so they don't matter.

Oh that's brilliant Datun

such a good test. Are you willing to tweet in your own name that a woman is an adult human female?

if not, why not?

@McDuffy

Love it, Datun Yes, you first, Alice. Let us know how it goes.

Indeed. And if she has pause for thought and decides it's probably not a good idea then yes she's bloody living in Gilead.

If you can't publicly state a fact about what a woman actually is, but can only imply it with frantic eye rolls, yes it's Gilead.

Spot on Datun

to be fair, before I decided that twitter needed to be set in fire and shot into space, I have tweeted the equivalent of that many times in my own name, but

1. I'm nobody much
2. I didn't half get a lot of shit for it

Always someone to tell us there are more important things to worry about.

Are men guilty into staying quiet until long lists of other issues are sorted out and they are allowed to work on something else?

Why do women have to sit by and watch until someone decides its an appetite to speak up

Appropriate time

Stuoid phone

If Janice Turner is on MN and reading this - please, Janice, take your poor dim colleague aside and give her a crash course in feminism 1.01!

Those comments are brilliant.

No one is buying that hand-wavey nonsense you’re pedalling, Alice.

I don’t understand though why there is this ‘have the backs’ of youths. Since when has any age group been homogeneous and when have they had all the answers?

And why should women “have the back” of all youths? Surely even in youth, feminists should have the back of girls and young women? I speak as the mother of a young lesbian, who is no longer “live and let live” about the men invading her spaces.

Our kimono fox friend has replied in agreement on Twitter which tells you all you need to know.

Exhausting isn't it? She spectacularly misses the point over and over again and her obvious contempt (thinly veiled jealousy?) for JK Rowling is absurd.

AnyOldPrion

Same here.

Alice is late to the party. She doesn’t realise we did “be niiiiice” and hand-wringing in 2018 and are so over it now and out the other side. People who are coming to this late always underestimate how angry women who have been following it closely are about this now.

So true, Betty.

Except the Fox-Nemesis said that there was a lot he didn't agree with so it obviously didn't scold enough for his liking.