BBC news are about to give a report on the massive increase in transphobic hate crime

[Tissueboxcover]

Just that really.
I wondered if anyone else is watching.

if they were viewed by the property owner as motivated by hatred towards one of the protected strands then they could be a hate crime.

Yes. That was my point. It was claimed that "women don't have penises" stickers were a hate crime. Is that a proportionate use of hate crime legislation?

There's a lot less transgender people. But there were almost 80,000 reported racist hate crimes, so the prosecution rate should be seen in that context. The prosecution rate for transphobic crimes is lower, around 9% of crimes based on race result in a prosecution, 11% based on religion, roughly 7% of crimes based on sexual orientation, about 3.5% for transphobic crimes and only 2% for crimes based on disability, possibly suggesting that police prioritise investigating crimes against some strands more than others.

Incitement to racial and religious hatred and hatred based on sexual
orientation are crimes in and of themselves, which is not the case for other protected strands.

A lot more crimes reported are likely to be caught by this, as a lot of things reported for the other strands may not actually be criminal offences.

When a police officer goes round to someone's work to check their thinking, because they liked a limerick, the meaning of 'relevancy' is about as reliable as all the rest of the linguistic claptrap.

Indeed, Datun.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Incitement to racial and religious hatred and hatred based on sexual orientation are crimes in and of themselves, which is not the case for other protected strands.

A lot more crimes reported are likely to be caught by this, as a lot of things reported for the other strands may not actually be criminal offences.

There's no real doubt as to whether they are criminal offences, they have to be crimes to be reported in the figures. In other words the police accept a crime has taken place, and so have the duty to investigate it accordingly. It remains to be answered why just 3% of transphobic hate crimes involving violence against the person and 2% of violent crimes against disabled people result in prosecution compared to 6% based on sexual orientation and 8% based on race.

The definition of a transphobic hate crime could be almost anything. Stickers, tweets, misgendering. All can fall into a catch all crime category.

The definition of a transphobic "hate crime" can be misgendering or posting stickers saying that women don't have penises. So forgive me if I don't think all these reported but not prosecuted crimes were truly proportionate.

We know TRAs have been quoted as wanting the hate crime figures inflated. We know the training is dubious, the CPS guidelines are dubious, and that dubious guidelines have been put out, created by organisations with a vested interest.

Apologies, must have been a posting glitch there.

It could well be stickers if there were placed on private property, I doubt you'd appreciate someone putting stickers on your front door. Loads of people have been prosecuted for stickering. Tweets and in misgendering would only be a crime in if they were part of of sustained harasment or met the threshold for malicious communications.

Surely whether stickers are irritating to remove on private property isn't really a reason to decide that they are a hate crime, unless that designation is truly proportionate?

Here are well known trans organisation Mermaids, responsible for a lot of police training and liaison, heavily implying that exclusion from services, repeated misgendering and deadnaming are hate crimes:

mermaidsuk.org.uk/hate-crime/

Well hate crimes are based on perception so a sticker that the property owner felt was transphobic would potentially be liable to a sentence uplift. What that uplift would be, or in fact whether it was applied at all would be down to the Judge.

In any event if you look at the stats transpobic hate crimes involving damage to property is are be very low be so stickers are unlikely to be a significant factor in the rise of transphobic hate crimes.

[quote Ereshkigalangcleg]Here are well known trans organisation Mermaids, responsible for a lot of police training and liaison, heavily implying that exclusion from services, repeated misgendering and deadnaming are hate crimes:

mermaidsuk.org.uk/hate-crime/[/quote]
No it says they are discrimination.

Well hate crimes are based on perception so a sticker that the property owner felt was transphobic would potentially be liable to a sentence uplift. What that uplift would be, or in fact whether it was applied at all would be down to the Judge.

Which I'm sure would be a massive consolation if it were you in the dock. Just imagine if misogyny were a hate crime. Vast amounts of death and rape threats made to women on social media every day. These are already a crime and could be acted on, but it seems like they don't get prosecuted very often.

No it says they are discrimination.

On the page entitled "hate crime", talking about hate crime. Disingenuous.

Just to give the context to others so they don't have to click:

Whilst not all hate crime and transphobia is violent, discrimination still occurs in many forms, such as repeated or deliberate misgendering of an individual, exclusion from services or activities, or refusing to stop using a person’s birth name (also known as ‘dead-naming’).

Neatly segueing from "hate crime" into "discrimination" and not making clear which is prosecutable hate crime.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Well hate crimes are based on perception so a sticker that the property owner felt was transphobic would potentially be liable to a sentence uplift. What that uplift would be, or in fact whether it was applied at all would be down to the Judge.

Which I'm sure would be a massive consolation if it were you in the dock. Just imagine if misogyny were a hate crime. Vast amounts of death and rape threats made to women on social media every day. These are already a crime and could be acted on, but it seems like they don't get prosecuted very often.

Well if you don't want to be in the dock don't commit criminal damage.

I'd support making misogyny a hate crime by the way.

Well if you don't want to be in the dock don't commit criminal damage.

Do you think posting "fuck the Tories" stickers should receive the same penalty as "women don't have penises"?

It's not really about what I think it's about what the law says, I support breaking the law sometimes, I've done lots of political stickering but I was always aware I might face prosecution if I was caught on because I knew people who had been.

I expect the law would treat the two incidents you mention pretty much the same.

I wonder if this is true. When men abuse transwomen, I suspect this is has more to do with patriarchal ideas of masculinity and a fear of homosexuality. I don't think it's done out of hatred of 'trans' people per se.

I think this is probably true for the most part. I doubt the kind if people prone to violent harassment are going to make fine distinctions about the kind of people they are harassing.

I’m not in favour of hate crime as a legal concept. Hurt feelings and offence are not crimes. The things which are crimes, such as graffitiing a mosque or attacking someone because of what they look like, are already crimes. Deciding intent to discern the category of offence is a slippery slope to social control.

hate crime and transphobia

Lol. "Assault and disobedience". "Murder and referring to someone by their sex".

@Datun

In order to appear on an applicant’s certificate, the information would need to satisfy the national relevancy and proportionality criteria

When a police officer goes round to someone's work to check their thinking, because they liked a limerick, the meaning of 'relevancy' is about as reliable as all the rest of the linguistic claptrap.

The cop was roundly criticised so hardly an example of what happens all the time. There are issues with the recording process but what the cop did is a poor example to use.

There's been some quite heavy sentencing passed down for stickers which fall foul of race crime legislation incidentally

www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/crime/man-who-placed-racist-stickers-across-derbyshire-towns-jailed-2940363

Disingenuous much?

On them were offensive slogans such as “Muslim scum out” and “Hitler was right”, one of which was found by a horrified headteacher outside a primary school.

Derby Crown Court heard how David Holmes also displayed a Ku Klux Klan figurine in his Heanor window.

He also put bottles of his “potent” homemade wine on neighbours' doorsteps. On them were written more racist slogans, including “black lives don’t matter,” “save my race” and one celebrating Klaus Barbie, a Gestapo officer known as the Butcher of Lyon and who tortured and killed Jews during the Second World War.

Mr James-Moore said: “Some said ‘deport illegal immigrants’ and other showed an emoji of Adolf Hitler with a hand written note which read ‘Muslim scum out’ and ‘Hitler was right’.

“Another sticker was found on a bus stop and showed a white toddler with a shaved head and the number 88 on it which is a link to a far-right ideology linked to Hitler’s birthday and the letters HH for ‘Heil Hitler’.”

Mr James-Moore said Holmes was arrested at his home address in Ashforth Avenue, Marlpool, Heanor and a number of items were seized.

He said this included letters from a Far-Right movement the defendant is a member of congratulating him for “a nice job in Heanor” and to “keep up the good work”.

Mr James-Moore said after being released on bail for that series of offences, Holmes' next offence happened on December 14, 2019.

He said he placed a US Confederate flag in his window and a figurine of a Ku Klux Klan member wearing a conical hat which was reported to the police by neighbours.

Mr James-Moore said the final set of offences involved the bottles of wine with offensive and racist messages.

He said: “Finally, on July 19, the defendant went out into his garden and began arguing with a neighbour over a dispute he had about a shed they were erecting.

He told them he would burn it down and said he would send ‘200 skinheads to come and knock at your door as you’re a grass’ or words to that effect.”

Holmes, who has no previous convictions, pleaded guilty to a number of charges including racially aggravated harassment, racially-aggravated criminal damage and witness intimidation.

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bit more than 'women don't have penises', wouldn't you say?

If anyone from the BBC is listening.
Women are angry.
Yesterday a MAN got away with murder. He strangled a women with such force he broke her neck. He was acquitted of murder.

A mother can be accused of hate crime if she calls her adult child by the name she gave him or her as a baby. (dead naming). This is a 'transphobic hate crime.'