School insists skirt is too short

[yesterdaystotalsteps123]

Dd doesn't like wearing trousers and has been told her skirt from Y6 that still fits her is too short. Fair enough I ordered a sensible one from Amazon, it is just above her knees and school are still saying it's too short! Wtf?? How can I address this?

And you accept that?! Where do you live, the 1920s?

I can't challenge it because she doesn't want to wear them. I challenged it when I was a pupil at the same school 25 years ago, so I'm not spineless. Didn't get anywhere though!

It's N Ireland. I've never seen a secondary school girl in trousers. I'm not saying there aren't any, maybe there are. But if you walk round Belfast city centre on a Friday afternoon when the teenagers go for a wander round the shops and there are thousands of them in school uniform (in non Covid times obviously) you don't see any girls in trousers. There definitely aren't any schools within travelling distance of where I live where girls are allowed to wear trousers.

I'd like to say short skirts aren't a problem.

But when I've seen considerably more of teenage girls than I would ever want to see when they have sat down, reached up or walked upstairs, I've got to say I now go along with the rules on skirt length.

If I wore a skirt as short and the kids saw as much of me as I went about my job as I have involuntarily seen on some of them, I'd be fired and probably on a register.

OP the solution is to buy a longer skirt.

My daughter had a male year head who referred to it as skirts up to high heaven. These were paired with a v neck jumper, top shirt button undone, and ties adjusted so they were not visible, hidden under the jumper.
Girls who wore trousers had to wear grey socks with them, boys never had specific socks.
Every item was in nasty fabric.

does seem very sexist, are the boys at the school allowed to wear shorts? my DS is allowed to wear shorts at his secondary school, but the girls rules are much stricter which is definitely an issue! although DS does go to a private school so I guess they may be stricter

Policy states "skirts should finish at or below the knee" hers was just above plus she was wearing thick tights.

That’s the problem, then. It’s considerably likely this was the policy when you sent her to that school so you’ve always been fully aware.

It doesn’t matter if “it doesn’t sit right” with you; that’s the rule and you need to follow it.

Yes Emily, bit it's mm here, and when have policies never been sexist and need challenging? From the school to the workplace to working life and family life, females are treated differently and usually unfairly. These skirt policy rules are rooted in the idea that 11 year old girls thighs are immoral in some unspecified way. She had zero thigh on show anyway, but in my experience secondary schools are desperate to close the attainment gap between boys and girls and have different leeways with boys than girls in terms of behaviour and schemes of work and exams, rewards and engagement strategies are often geared towards boys and their typical interests. But anyway I will speak to school today because the skirt rests slightly above her kneecap not showing any leg above the kneecap. Ffs. It is ridiculous

Why is it sexist?

Speak to the school all you want, but all that’s ridiculous is your own overreaction and imagining problems that aren’t there to suit your own narrative.

@drspouse

So far as playing , I'm not sure what "rough play " you have in mind for primary children. At my primary school in the 60s it was complex skipping games and hopscotch. I bet the boys took over an entire playground for football though, didn't they? Though they hopefully wouldn't be allowed to do that now,

It was many years ago but no recollection of that. The communal skipping games with long ropes took up a fair amount of space.

All of you who think any activity is impossible in a skirt- what do you think girls did before trousers became commonplace- especially girls like me growing up on a farm?

@yesterdaystotalsteps123

Yes Emily, bit it's mm here, and when have policies never been sexist and need challenging? From the school to the workplace to working life and family life, females are treated differently and usually unfairly. These skirt policy rules are rooted in the idea that 11 year old girls thighs are immoral in some unspecified way. She had zero thigh on show anyway, but in my experience secondary schools are desperate to close the attainment gap between boys and girls and have different leeways with boys than girls in terms of behaviour and schemes of work and exams, rewards and engagement strategies are often geared towards boys and their typical interests. But anyway I will speak to school today because the skirt rests slightly above her kneecap not showing any leg above the kneecap. Ffs. It is ridiculous

But with tights on underneath and the inevitable friction between the two materials, it won't be anywhere near the already too short position it is when she stands up when she moves around normally. It'll be halfway to her backside.

Policy states "skirts should finish at or below the knee" hers was just above

@yesterdaystotalsteps123 Well then. It might seem picky but it seems they can see the difference. So, her skirt needs to be at or below the knee like in the rules.

It is perfectly possible to have a uniform or dress code which specifies things like no spaghetti straps, no skirts above the knee etc without being of the opinion that 'girls' thighs are immoral'. Midriffs aren't immoral but neither boys'nor girls' midriffs tend to be allowed to be visible in school uniform. Inappropriate for school or the workplace is not the same as 'immoral'.

The fact is that school uniforms tend to have less flexibility for boys than girls. Most secondary schools don't allow shorts for boys, only long trousers, yet girls are allower to wear trousers or skirts. Expecting them to be knee-length does not seem particularly unreasonable to me.

@Badbanana

Strange, I’ve never met any woman/girl who had a complete aversion to wearing trousers? Is it a sensory issue?

Her choice, obviously, and it sounds like the school are being petty if they are saying past her knee is too short.

But trousers are infinitely more practical/comfortable. I don’t think any of DD’s friends have ever worn a skirt at school. But then they are all sporty types that like to play football at break time.

I haven't worn a skirt in 20 years. I hate them. I'm extremely self conscious about my tree trunk legs.

Sorry, clicked post accidentally.

My SIL however is the complete opposite. She hates trousers. She owns some jeans but never wears them.

Policy states "skirts should finish at or below the knee" hers was just above

There we go, it’s not in line with the school uniform policy.

I bet the boys took over an entire playground for football though, didn't they?

They certainly did at my DD's school, and that was only 10 years ago.

Fortunately, such oppressive misogynistic structures do not seem to be affecting girls' attainment in schools in terms of the things that really matter. Is The Patriarchy losing sight of the Primary Objective?

My kids went to a coed secondary, not in the UK, but with similar uniform rules to moan about.
All subjects available to boys and girls, both my daughters have STEM degrees and careers,
My main gripe was mixed PE classes (not mixed team sports). It seemed to me that a lot of girls opted out as soon as possible - not wanting to bounce around in front of other girls and especially other boys. (They did a set of classes in self defence just for girls).

Practical response: Get a tape measure. Measure the distance between your daughter's waist and just below her knees.

That is your minimum length. (Although I'd add a centimetre or two on, to accommodate the flare outwards of the skirt because clothes aren't curtains, and can't go straight down)

Then, when you order off amazon or wherever, read the listing in full. Any decent clothes supplier gives measurements. Check what they are.

Strange, I’ve never met any woman/girl who had a complete aversion to wearing trousers? Is it a sensory issue?

I know the conversation has moved on but I was like this until past my teens. Even now (40s) I cannot abide tights - can just about manage if I cut the feet out, but that makes them into leggings so defeats the purpose really.

I remember crying my eyes out over a school play costume (donkey? cow? Something animal) in juniors because I just could not cope with the bottom half of it and everyone was getting cross with me because animals don’t wear skirts.

Whenever I read something about making all school uniforms trousers only it make me cringe.

Re: OP, I agree that just above the knee should be reasonable, as it meets professional dress codes AND allows reasonable movement.
BUT if the written rules say otherwise, you’ll have to after a rule change (long game) or accept it. Either option requires a longer skirt for now though, sorry!

As I said I've just had a wide eyed innocent question on another thread about how can I walk, cycle or garden if wearing a skirt.

The best bikes (imo! and I think you and I are probably in agreement here, Lass) have skirt guards.

As an aside, the only high heels I can’t cycle in are wedges

I am completely averse to trousers as an adult. I only wear skirts and was much more comfortable in them at school too.
However, my dd is at a school where the school must meet the knee. It looks nice, it causes no offence and I can't really see why you can't just get your dd a skirt that fits with the schools policy given that schools probably have enough on their plate this year to deal with without adding this onto their agenda as a battle.
And yes you can absolutely run about in a knee length skirt. My 7 yo manages anyway.

I used to think that this kind of thing was just the result of someone's enthusiastic love of decorating, but of course! A skirt guard. I need one.

Anyone watched grand army on Netflix? Joey’s protest of mysogynistic dress code is spot on. Highly recommend watching it.

I had a teacher pull me up for wearing a too low top at school once. At a high school with no uniform and no set dress code. Two other girls in the class were wearing the exact same top but they were flat chested, I’m not. My teacher said I had to be respectful of the boys and the male teachers who might be distracted. She was a guidance teacher of all things yet told a young teenage girl that my body was the problem and that males weren’t responsible for looking at my body. She still turns my stomach today.

This feels similar train of thought - how is any skirt ‘too short’. The only definition of too short I can thunk that’s appropriate would be underwear on show, and if that’s the case then no underwear on show should be the rule not an exact length of skirt. What an earth happens when a girl grows half and inch and her skirt now becomes ‘too short’. If the possibility of catching a teensy glimpse of teenage girls thighs is such a triggering one then the male teachers and students shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near any teenage girl. If that’s the case they are the problem and they should be responsible for not objectifying girls bodies and the onus needs to be on males learning to look away not on girls to cover up their inevitability developing bodies. Teaching girls their natural body is shameful is disgusting and that’s the message that comes across from skirts too short. I think it’s really important to challenge such a rule op, because it will only get worse for her throughout school otherwise.

@BettyDuKeiraBellisMyShero

As I said I've just had a wide eyed innocent question on another thread about how can I walk, cycle or garden if wearing a skirt.

The best bikes (imo! and I think you and I are probably in agreement here, Lass) have skirt guards.

As an aside, the only high heels I can’t cycle in are wedges

As somebody who used to ride motorbikes (having to get off whilst still in motion due to an approaching van on my side of the road, and the two where car drivers forgot I was there and drove through me when moving at 10mph and then stationary - the last resulted in a broken neck and I decided when miraculously walking out of hospital that I'd probably used up all my good luck), the idea of anybody on two wheels with just a pair of pumps on their feet and a skirt horrifies me - just as the future skin graft candidates in shorts, a vest and a pair of flip flops or trainers do.

The scarring from road rash is horrific.