School insists skirt is too short

[yesterdaystotalsteps123]

Dd doesn't like wearing trousers and has been told her skirt from Y6 that still fits her is too short. Fair enough I ordered a sensible one from Amazon, it is just above her knees and school are still saying it's too short! Wtf?? How can I address this?

The only reason for saying girls can't wear a short skirt can be because it makes her look too sexually attractive. And these are 11 year old girls we're talking about.
It's nothing to do with them being sexually attractive.
If no students are allowed to have anythinh above the knee then it's a clear point that removes any debate about whether something is or isn't appropriate for school because it almost always ends up with some parents arguing male teachers are pervs.

I've had to have quiet words with students in the past (boys and girls) to say that underwear on show isn't ok in schools after various trends either intentionally or unintentionally showed too much.

There's also a lot of pressure on girls to be pushed into conforming to narrow ideals of beauty and sexuality into their teens. Having a school knee length rule takes that decision away from children who may be feeling pressure to dress in a certain way.

Now if the girls are being told their skirts have to be longer than boys'shorts then I'd be raising it.

I see your point, RoyalCorgi, but I'd say that prevention of shorter skirts isn't necessarily about sexualising girls (unless the school foolishly says something to that effect) but could simply be about students learning that in certain situations, certain types of clothing are appropriate or inappropriate, just as in the workplace. And clothing which could reveal underwear could simply be seen as "inappropriate for this setting."

The skirt in question may not reveal any unmentionables, but I guess the school's policy is trying to avoid grey areas where a shorter above the knee skirt did, and it's just simpler to make "at the knee" the cutoff point. So to speak.

@DonEmmanuelsDingleberries

Ours says length must match where your fingers end if you put your arm down at your side. They uphold it as a lot of girls are shuffling in in really tiny skirts.

Off topic, but this rule doesn't make any sense to me if the aim is to avoid 'tiny skirts'. I have a long torso, so a skirt that just reached my fingertips would barely cover my bum!

Same here. My torso is out of proportion to my height.

Gosh, I've just checked, my skirt wouldn't cover my vulva under that rule! Freezing!

@drspouse

Gosh, I've just checked, my skirt wouldn't cover my vulva under that rule! Freezing!

Mine either!!

Our school says it much touch the floor when they kneel down. Easy to check.

Also easy to roll up in the time honoured fashion!!

My daughters old school made them wear calf length skirts because the girls were wearing them too short and it was a 'distraction for the boys and male teachers ' .. quite shocking but she chose to wear trousers as did every other girl !!

This issue really pisses me off. DD's skirt has never been particularly short anyway, but the school introduced a new regulation one this year because too many girls were apparently not complying with the requirements.

So I have paid £16 for a skirt that dd will wear for less than a year (she's in year 11). Ironically, it's the same length as her old one or even slightly shorter; she's a skinny little thing and there was only one length available for her waist size. And we have had to do this all because some of the girls were apparently wearing skirts that were so short, the boys and male teachers simply couldn't help not but be distracted by them.

If there were specific issues with the appropriacy of what some of the girls were wearing, I really don't understand why this wasn't just addressed with them on an individual basis. Why make such an issue of it at all? DD's male head of year repeatedly made comments about what the girls were wearing, to the point that dd felt really uncomfortable about it. Apparently he was just enforcing the uniform rules.

As for wearing trousers, dd can't bear them for some reason. Outside school, she lives in leggings/trackie bottoms or sometimes jeans, but isn't allowed to wear any of those in school, so skirts it is.

There's also a lot of pressure on girls to be pushed into conforming to narrow ideals of beauty and sexuality into their teens. Having a school knee length skirt rule takes that decision away from children who may be feeling pressure to dress in a certain way.

Totally this. This is not about girls exercising their fledging feminist wings aged 13. Its entirely about wanting to conform, to fit in and be cool by being hot, for being hot is women's currency in a patriarchy and they learn it ever younger. The shorter the skirt, the cooler the girl. They don't want to look boring. Now where do we think they picked up that message?

As it's often pointed out on FWR, look at what the men/boys as a group are doing versus the women/girls. In this case, must the boys reveal 80% of their legs in order to be cool at school? No. As with popstars, the male pupils' legs are fully covered up and they're not remotely fretting about this, while the girls go as skimpy as they can.

This really isn’t important. Follow what the school says and encourage your daughter to concentrate on the work.

What's the school policy on boys skirts ?

This is not about girls exercising their fledging feminist wings aged 13. Its entirely about wanting to conform, to fit in and be cool by being hot, for being hot is women's currency in a patriarchy and they learn it ever younger. The shorter the skirt, the cooler the girl. They don't want to look boring. Now where do we think they picked up that message?

I used to agree with you, until I talked to my teenage dd about it. My dd was not wanting to wear a short skirt herself, she actually doesn't like the look of them and is confident enough not to worry about wearing clothes to help her fit in. However, she was incensed by having to constantly listen to male teachers going on about what other girls were wearing. For her, it is a feminist issue, and having talked it through, I have to say that I agree with her.

Yes, I agree that lots of young girls are pressurised to conform to a certain look, and we should definitely try to move away from this, but forcing them to conform to a different kind of look is not the solution.

DD's perception was that the female teachers never said anything about skirt length....

When I was at school, long ago, girls were not allowed to wear boots in winter or sandals in summer, a source of great dismay to us all. But we did pe in gym knickers, which were also what we did athletics in.
There was a long thread a couple of years ago about gym knickers.
If anyone is ever in Limerick, a couple of schools have really long skirts that girls allegedly wear pyjama bottoms under.
Is it a feminist issue? I need to consider that.

When you start a school. Your usually given a copy of the school policy. Or told they are on the website to see. By enrolling your child. Or being accepted. That means you've acknowledged the rules and will adhere to them

So you've stated. She will wear a skirt that is below or at the knee.

You can't really argue.

My daughters school introduced a new regulation skirt last year. The new skirt has a logo on the waistband that must always be visible. This is to stop them rolling the waistband over and the skirt then being "too short". My daughter is pretty tall and the new skirt comes in one length which for her is just past her mid thigh. She's delighted her skirt is even shorter than before and fits in with the dress code. Clearly they didn't think that through!

When you start a school. Your usually given a copy of the school policy. Or told they are on the website to see. By enrolling your child. Or being accepted. That means you've acknowledged the rules and will adhere to them

And if the rules are unlawful ?

When you start a school. Your usually given a copy of the school policy. Or told they are on the website to see. By enrolling your child. Or being accepted. That means you've acknowledged the rules and will adhere to them

My dd has always adhered to the rules that we signed up to. My issue is that the rules changed in her last year, imo without good reason. I'm hardly going to move her in the middle of her GCSEs because I don't like the new uniform policy, but the fact remains, I don't like it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly like seeing girls walking around in tiny skirts that are too short for them. I just think there are more important things for schools to focus on than how girls dress.

@MoonJelly

We don’t enforce uniform in Scottish state schools (We just have a recommended dress code) and we have none of these problems

Goodness, how sensible. The amount of teaching time some English schools waste on enforcing the minutiae of uniform rules is utterly ridiculous. In some schools they seem to use this as a substitute for anything more challenging like good teaching.

Absolutely - can't believe it is still a thing. I was once sent home from school because my skirt was, and I quote the exact words used, "The wrong shade of navy blue." I didn't bother going back that day.

Strange, I’ve never met any woman/girl who had a complete aversion to wearing trousers? Is it a sensory issue?

Well you've met several now- including me. They are so uncomfortable, especially jeans.

How can girls run or walk if there skirt is actually over their knee?

I'm sorry, but that's just silly.

Look, some people find it hard to understand that people don't like trousers at all...perhaps you could show how, although not the case for you, you can at least accept that some people find skirts a great , drafty incumberence?

@midgebabe

Look, some people find it hard to understand that people don't like trousers at all...perhaps you could show how, although not the case for you, you can at least accept that some people find skirts a great , drafty incumberence?

But no one challenges women wearing trousers whereas there are plenty of posters happy to post stuff like Strange, I’ve never met any woman/girl who had a complete aversion to wearing trousers? Is it a sensory issue?

I've just had the most ridiculous set of questions put to me on another thread because apparently a poster thinks it's not possible to walk for exercise, cycle or garden wearing a dress.

Other posters on that thread were making equally ridiculous assumptions that only very old women or women with physical disabilities would choose a skirt.

This is really shit.

The problem usually boils down to girls bodies changing to look older.

They say we'll have a unisex uniform and go trousers only- taking something away from girls rather than adding to the boys. And girls uniform trousers on certain girls bodies do look revealing- because they are often cut straight and girls have curvy etc from quite young up.

Our school knew high socks are banned. Why? Because that's the 'sexy schoolgirl' wank image. Knee high socks and a short skirt. So they have to wear tights even though some find them incredibly uncomfortable.

Skirts- girls grow fast. It's just legs FFS. The issue is how schoolgirls are viewed.

I knew a bloke at work who used to go running every day in the tiniest 1970s shorts you can imagine. He had very long legs as well. People said haha short sorts but.. can you imagine what a woman leggy woman doing that every day would get

Boys just aren't sexualised like girls are. They just aren't. They grow and their trousers get tight around the bum and no one freaks out.

The situation with this in usa in some schools has been reported a lot. It's not unusual.

'But no one challenges women wearing trousers whereas there are plenty of posters happy to post stuff like Strange, I’ve never met any woman/girl who had a complete aversion to wearing trousers? Is it a sensory issue?'

ONE poster said that.

Loads of cultures the men wear skirt like attire.

It's more practical in some circs.

This feels like a derail. I didn't realise others were aghast as well.

However, she was incensed by having to constantly listen to male teachers going on about what other girls were wearing. For her, it is a feminist issue

Brava to your DD - and to you for raising her to be aware like this!

@NiceGerbil

'But no one challenges women wearing trousers whereas there are plenty of posters happy to post stuff like Strange, I’ve never met any woman/girl who had a complete aversion to wearing trousers? Is it a sensory issue?'

ONE poster said that.

Similar comments get trotted out time after time. On any thread about school uniform there will be posters going on about why everyone should just wear trousers. This one is a pleasant exception. As I said I've just had a wide eyed innocent question on another thread about how can I walk, cycle or garden if wearing a skirt.

I appreciate some of you have to announce how gender nonconforming you are at every opportunity and how women fought for the right to wear trousers. That doesn't make those of us prefer skirts freaks.