International Pronouns Day

[TartanLassie]

Message from the local education establishment.
So many things I want to say .....

Today is International Pronouns Day and we’re inviting you to celebrate it with us.

Using the correct pronoun (she/he/they) is incredibly important to members of the trans and gender non-conforming community. In fact, being called the wrong pronoun can be particularly harmful to their mental health and wellbeing, but it can be hard for people to share their pronoun when it isn’t something everyone does.

Many people use traditional “he/she” and “his/hers” pronouns, but some prefer to use “they/them”. Additionally some people change their pronouns depending on how they feel – you’ll sometimes see people use “she/they”.

Here are some things that you can do to help:
• Have a look at this website: https://www.mypronouns.org//_ It contains useful information on why it matters and how to use inclusive language
• Consider adding your pronouns to your email signature This helps to normalise the practice, making it easier for people who do not use gendered pronouns to use theirs. (This can also be useful for people with a name which isn’t necessarily male or female, like Sam)
• Consider putting your preferred pronouns in your social media bios
• When meeting new people or introducing yourself to a group for the first time, perhaps think about introducing yourself including your pronouns.
• In the same way, start to avoid assuming the pronouns that people use – if in doubt ask, or use the non-gender specific ‘they’ until you’re sure
• If you use the wrong pronoun by mistake, it is ok to apologise, ask or thank the person for clarification, and move on
• Gently correct people who are using the wrong pronoun to describe someone

So, as the bearded, twice married father

Completely irrelevant but Corbyn is thrice married.

And ex-partner of Diane... he’s not really my idea of a catch but hey, “as the Lord makes ‘em, he matches ‘em” as my mum used to say. Maybe he has ‘hidden charm’.

When is International Adjective Day? Or International Verb Day?

@DreadPirateLuna

When is International Adjective Day? Or International Verb Day?

I don't know, but I think International Adverb day is soon.

Feels like we had that yesterday. And we will have it again tomorrow. And every day til the fever subsided.

I'd have more sympathy for this if they were campaigning for non- gendered, or if you prefer, non-sexed pronouns.

I can't think of a situation where they add much. Where the sex, or even gender, of a person is important it will have been established at the outset so "ze" " zir" or whatever thereafter makes no difference.

I don't know, but I think International Adverb day is soon.

I bloody love you for this Errol

Hemi (pron hemmy) is the unisex third person pronoun in Bislama - ideal for our purposes. First person pronoun is mi, or mimi, as in, "Mimi oraet, tankyu tumas."

My pronouns are do/re/mi. Funny about that Cocothefirst.

@DryHeave

They’re asking “what pronouns do you use for yourself?”

Surely you can only use my/me/I?

And we if you were Queen Victoria and bloody fucked off with all the crap.

Mine are ho/ho/ho as I identify as Santa

BBC bitesize, the bit of the bbc that provides national curriculum online learning, is teaching children to be better allies. FUCK OFF.

I've loved reading the comments, some fab stuff so anyone thinking we'll quietly get used to proNouns, will be less sure after seeing this

I have 2 serious issues with this

1. My son has Aspergers and he just doesn't get it at all. They now have a younger person at work identifying as non-binary but because they are biological male, male dress and male name, this is causing real confusion. My son can say things that are inappropriate and my worry is that he'll come out with something and they/them will take offence. Though I must say I'd be through the courts in no time.

1. Althiough pronoun use isn't law, these clever people also know that if they can make it the norm, then they will be able to use this in law. Clever stuff, let's get smarter and sturdier and just keep pushing back. The sooner organisations like MIND get wise, the better

My son can say things that are inappropriate

I assume by this you mean your son isn't good at white lies. You are concerned that he's going to describe a man as a man and use appropriate pronouns because he can't do the mental gymnastics required to keep a non-binary person happy. I feel really strongly that your son is the sensible one in this.

Excellent. As a linguist I'd like to celebrate International Pronouns Day by teaching the uninitiated all about relative pronouns, possessive pronouns, reflexive pronouns, subject and object pronouns and demonstrative pronouns. I think it's verging on discriminatory that the only pronouns being given any attention are he/she/they/him/her/them tbh.

Go on then.

Ummm... are you sure? I don't need much encouragement to launch into an impromptu grammar lesson, but it's not always well-received tbh.

Our general ignorance of all the types of pronoun which could be at our disposal (many of us being from the era when grammar and parts of speech was mostly something only done in forrin) may be depriving us of claiming our true identities, lazylinguist.
(Your name suggests you could enlighten us but really CBA so I won't push the point )

Your name suggests you could enlighten us but really CBA so I won't push the point

Yes, I certainly could. Among other aspects of my job, I teach foreign languages to adults (most of whom learned little grammar at school). They are positively astonished at the wondrous variety of grammar points available to be learned, most of which they never knew existed, including the range of pronouns. It is most gratifying.

highame there was a young man with autism convicted of a hate crime for asking a special constable whether they were a man or a woman.

His own protected characteristic - which meant he was blunt and did not understand social cues - was not enough to protect him from a conviction for hurting someone's feelings.

I'm sure the autism society has had something to say about this, but, I've not seen it in the press. Personally, I think it's outrageous that he was charged, let alone now has a criminal record.

Would he have been convicted if the sex and the gender of the (Special?) police Officer had aligned?

I’ve heard police called terrible things over the years - and threatened - but ‘are you a lassie or a fella’ isn’t one is naturally think of as a criminal offence.

International Adverb Day?

Oh please Errol, name the date! Imagine how we could spam up Twitter with that!

😊

I’ve heard police called terrible things over the years - and threatened - but ‘are you a lassie or a fella’ isn’t one is naturally think of as a criminal offence

Haven't many of us been "misgendered" dozens of times anyway. Wheres the criminal proceedings there ?

Plenty of names like Alex Ashley sam etc well it could be either. Who cares. Its not an attack on us as people. Dont we all just get on with our day ?

No one else is under any obligation to use my name at all. I mean its polite but I cabt stop them calling me whatever they like when in not around

That's appalling, vivarium. Grammatical derailing aside, I am very glad that I've not been in a position to be expected to state my pronouns. Dd(15) and increasingly also ds(12) are pretty woke on the subject.

I keep being surprised by ds referring to individual kids as 'they' even when he's talking about a child who he has no reason to believe identifies as anything other than the girl or boy they appear to be. Presumably he's somehow learned that he needs to avoid offending people by 'assuming their gender'. But surely by doing this will piss off the far, far greater proportion of the population who do not want to be referred to as 'they'. Trampling on the views of the many in order to pander to the desires of the very few.

@AnyOldPrion

International Adverb Day?

Oh please Errol, name the date! Imagine how we could spam up Twitter with that!

😊

Unfortunately I can't, I can only say it's 'soon'.

lazylinguist, I am reminded that my own favourite bit of pronoun lore involves the personal indirect reflexive, for which there is no separate form in English. (Some languages do have such a form, Greek for instance, see e.g. Thucydides II 13 (sorry, cannot do the font here)).

I suggest, when the matter of pronouns raises its head, providing a couple of references for those interested. H.-N. Castaneda, "The Logic of Self-Knowledge" (Nous (1967)) is possibly the locus classicus for elucidation; Elizabeth Anscombe's "The First Person" (see Samuel Cuttenplan(ed.), Mind and Language : Wolfson College Lectures 1974 (Oxford, 1975)) takes the notion and runs with it in a super-interesting direction.

Good reading for International Pronouns Day? Surely so. As a bonus, an interesting conclusion for anyone taken with ideas of identity is to be found in Anscombe's piece. Be warned, though: many students, in my experience, find this difficult. Rewarding, though, particularly for anyone seriously involved in their own views about their identity.

lazylinguist, I am reminded that my own favourite bit of pronoun lore involves the personal indirect reflexive

I've just been teaching that in German actually. They don't have those in my other two languages (French and Spanish).

I have often thought about how the whole current pronouns/gender issue might work in languages like French and Spanish where, for example, the word for 'they' is not 'gender neutral' but has a masculine or feminine form. Is this yet another situation where the male becomes the default, and where 'unisex' actually means male? I don't have any Spanish or French colleagues atm, so haven't had anyone to discuss it with.