‘We’re takin it down now’??!

[AchieveBelieve]

The mental health thread has been zapped. I suppose I should have expected it - I was feeling raw last night and probably opened up more than I should have on here. Lots of other women were frank and open about the impact of the current women’s rights issues on their mental health and it made for somber reading but fucking hell it was a testament to the feeling of so many women on here. And it was deleted because of the opening post, even though that was written over 2 years ago?! It wasn’t ‘civil’ apparently. I can’t remember what it said to be honest. Maybe it overstepped I don’t know. But I’m raging at the cavalier deletion message that ended with ‘we’re takin it down’ - sounds like something you’d say in a computer game. If my post contravened anything I would have appreciated a message from MN. Especially given the nature of the posts I would have expected some sensitivity rather than the gung ho deletion message.

I appreciate this will get deleted too as a TAAT but just thought I’d vent.

This is really getting up my nose. Get a grip. These threads are being resurrected for the sole purpose of causing issues. The thing TRA's want is the end of MN FWR and by any means, You are all just jumping straight onto that bandwagon.

In fact, and I don't know if she sees her own notifications (probably not), I'm tagging @justinemumsnet in here.

If old threads are problematic then by all means lock them but at this rate you might as well delete the section (which of course is the creeps' goal)

Thank you for that post Dervel that’s interesting about the future.

Hopefully HQ will come on to clarify about retrospectively declaring whole threads offensive. I’d have thought for their own sanity they would want to draw a clear line here and refuse Eyes who demand this. Are HQ really happy to multiply their own workload by having to review historical threads?

One of the things I do when I can and remember to (so not always) is link together old posts and new ones on the same topic by posting on each. This is because I noticed how important archivists like R0wan have been. I want women today and the PhD students of the future to be able to link discussions up to see the development of discussions.

But by posting the link to a relevant new thread on a new thread- or posting on a long running thread like this one was, or on say one of our ‘resource’ threads, or on an evidence- collecting thread, then if those can be retrospectively policed and whole threads zapped then FWR culture will have to change massively.

We’ll have to keep our history elsewhere if we can’t touch it in real time. It’s a really sinister tactic.

This MN Policy will encourage FWR to be used just a noticeboard to signpost temporarily to other discussion... and then FWR the numbers will drop right off. So this policy doesn’t seem coherent from their own commercial perspective let alone site ethos and what is ‘in the spirit’

Either way it would be great if HQ could engage on this on this thread. Also, it’s not my personal experience that we get a reply from HQ with an explanation after our individual posts have been zapped, even when requested.

HQ mods should be able to resist being pressured into remit creep and while I am sure they get a deluge of reports from angry narcissists, modding culture needs to retain the idea that deleting posts or threads can be very significant actions, especially in the current context of pressure on women’s speech online.

I think with this new strike backdating thing, it's quite chilling: it means MN can quite literally rewrite history. Things that were considered fine two years ago will now be obliterated as if they never existed. On a small scale it doesnt matter. On a larger scale it shapes an image of a society that isnt accurate.

Great point Hecate
Online culture is full of hyperbole and sometimes very overblown language is used by TRAs- like changing the everyday plain English usages of ‘literal’, ‘violence’, ‘existence’, ‘unsafe’, ‘debate’, ‘attack’, ‘phobic’, ‘woman’ etc.

If that is taken seriously and allowed to stand and have consequences because we feel people should be able to express their feelings, OK, and the exact same power should be allowed to women’s language.

Hi all. We're taking another look at that thread now. Please bear with us.

And @Womantheonlykind apologies, we don't think that the strike applies, we'll remove it and email you.

Sorry, typo: In my post above that should have read, ‘by posting the link to a relevant OLD thread on a new thread..’

Thanks for reviewing it Michael

Thank you Michael

Thanks.

Whatever your decision is on that particular thread and historical posts, please can you discuss with your mods the best practice of their work?

The cavalier tone of the deletion message and email strike against a poster were deliberate choices by someone, and especially on an MH thread were hugely inappropriate.

I've just seen the thread. Reinstated?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3430141-Womens-mental-health-is-being-damaged-by-our-forced-extinction

Bloody hell. I think that moderator ought to be getting a strike. Or 3. That is extraordinarily high handed.

The internet is on the threshold of truly democratising the digital space

No it isn’t.

I remember very clearly the birth of the internet. Don’t you remember all the promise it held? That the mere existence of the internet was going to democratise the whole world? About how no-one could control it because anyone and everyone could have their own web site, and that everyone was now on a level playing field? Remember how open source would end commercial software and it would all be free?

The internet will of course change over time, but the hierarchies will remain. They will not stand still and allow themselves to be removed from the picture. New distributed computing models will disrupt only for as long as it takes for the major players to figure out how to come out on top again.

The fundamental power structures will wobble for a bit, then come to rest exactly how they were before.

Good. Thanks for reviewing, Michael.
Maybe MNHQ needs a different procedure for moderation of older threads, and also those about people discussing their own mental health? The distress and distrust caused were not at all in keeping with the ethos of this site. The review and reinstatement is. A statement on policy in this area might be helpful.

Perhaps an addition to the Talk guidelines clarifying rules re historical posts would be helpful?

Hopefully HQ will come on to clarify about retrospectively declaring whole threads offensive. I’d have thought for their own sanity they would want to draw a clear line here and refuse Eyes who demand this. Are HQ really happy to multiply their own workload by having to review historical threads?

See, I think this is just verging on conspiracy theory territory.
Someone on this thread has apologised for bumping said thread as was just wanting somewhere to offload, but you're talking about All Seeing Eyes demanding shutdowns of threads.
Maybe it got missed first time round (not by the Eyes you refer to, just in general by people) and on the bump realised how bad it was for mental health of everyone (JJ and Lamenting have already articulated better than that, but you know what I mean - I'm with them on this one)

If the mods took it down because of a considered concern for the mental health of the posters, I hardly think they'd have done it with an offhand deletion message. And the message to its OP indicated that wasn't the reason.

even Ireland where all the changes people seem terrified of are old news

Current news. Sounds like you're definitely talking from a position of not knowing what's going on in other places. Quite the privilege compared to those of us who are living it.

Thank you MNHQ.
Such a shame that it was reported in the first place - but then we all know why this site is under such close attention.

See, I think this is just verging on conspiracy theory territory

"whoa - you're crazy, you're overreacting, you're imagining things. You need to calm down. You're being irrational."

So many of us have heard all of that before.

Indeed, thanks to MNHQ for looking again.

See, I think this is just verging on conspiracy theory territory

Something that we can see happening, with our own eyes, and we're told we're imagining it. I wonder where women have heard that before...

@AbsintheFriends

See, I think this is just verging on conspiracy theory territory

"whoa - you're crazy, you're overreacting, you're imagining things. You need to calm down. You're being irrational."

So many of us have heard all of that before.

Where did I tell you to calm down, being irrational? Don't put words in my mouth. You really don't think talking about Eyes is what I said? That we're being "forced into extinction" etc? OK fair enough. Do you.

we all know why this site is under such close attention.

Absolutely yes.

Always interesting to see which threads certain posters opposed to women on FWR pop up on. Mental health thread being discussed? Yup - here they are.

@MichaelMumsnet can you please look again at how the reporting system is being gamed by old threads. This is ridiculously unfair.