‘We’re takin it down now’??!

[AchieveBelieve]

The mental health thread has been zapped. I suppose I should have expected it - I was feeling raw last night and probably opened up more than I should have on here. Lots of other women were frank and open about the impact of the current women’s rights issues on their mental health and it made for somber reading but fucking hell it was a testament to the feeling of so many women on here. And it was deleted because of the opening post, even though that was written over 2 years ago?! It wasn’t ‘civil’ apparently. I can’t remember what it said to be honest. Maybe it overstepped I don’t know. But I’m raging at the cavalier deletion message that ended with ‘we’re takin it down’ - sounds like something you’d say in a computer game. If my post contravened anything I would have appreciated a message from MN. Especially given the nature of the posts I would have expected some sensitivity rather than the gung ho deletion message.

I appreciate this will get deleted too as a TAAT but just thought I’d vent.

whereby users deleted more than three times in any rolling six week period

Hang on, you are getting a strike now for a post made 2 years ago.

Surely that doesn't count as a current deletion?

@yourhairiswinterfire You're right, that was a poorly chosen phrase and I apologise.

I have written back asking for clarification and asking to not be deleted.

I'm genuinely flummoxed.

and feeling a bit betrayed tbh.

I know it's the lie of the land now but I am so tired.

[quote jj1968]@yourhairiswinterfire You're right, that was a poorly chosen phrase and I apologise.[/quote]
Thank you jj, I appreciate that.

Perhaps overly hyperbolic would be a better description. There really is no forced extinction, I feel deeply sad some should be so terrified of trans inclusion and acceptance. I would urge you to look into places like Argentina, Denmark, California and even Ireland where all the changes people seem terrified of are old news. Women still exist, the horror show you imagine has not come to pass, in fact few people except trans people even really noticed things like self ID being introduced.

Can I just say, I tried to reply to the pm I received and got 'mumsnet says' with an ok box - though it didn't tell me what mumsnet says, but I was unable to reply. Tried more than once. No idea if it was a fault or if I was considered at fault in some way.

Prompted to log in after a very long time to say how upset I am about this thread being taken down. Some days it’s like being repeatedly kicked in the teeth.
As for the accusation of hyperbole and that everything is dandy in counties with self Id, I’m just aghast. Bit of research needed there. I don’t know what we are allowed to mention here any more, but this is simply untrue,

And another thing - quite apart from the very real issues in places like Ireland, women talking about the removal of their ability to speak of themselves as a political class is not nothing. It’s actually everything. We can’t fight for our interests if we don’t have the words.

women talking about the removal of their ability to speak of themselves as a political class is not nothing. It’s actually everything.

I completely agree with this. Women are a group who have their biology in common.

We need to be very wary of anyone who tells us that we shouldn't be free to talk about this.

@FleetsumNLangCleg

That thread was deleted because it was reported, not because it was resurrected. What I mean is, everything posted here is initially uncensored. But if someone reports, it can be deleted. So two years ago this thread was fine, but today the outside monitors are really trying to shut down conversation.

Imagine trying to stop people reaching out for mental health support. Imagine that mindset. And then MN saying "we're takin it down now"? Too much.

Yep exactly. That’s massively upsetting. It was also a really useful and supportive thread.

But but but...if you're getting a strike for something you posted 2 years ago, them mnhq have just opened up a whole new way for the monitors to get "problem" posters banned without even having to wait for them to post new stuff??! Fucking hell!

@jj1968

Perhaps overly hyperbolic would be a better description. There really is no forced extinction, I feel deeply sad some should be so terrified of trans inclusion and acceptance. I would urge you to look into places like Argentina, Denmark, California and even Ireland where all the changes people seem terrified of are old news. Women still exist, the horror show you imagine has not come to pass, in fact few people except trans people even really noticed things like self ID being introduced.

Ireland? Where a male bodied person whose stated aim is to rape and kill women, even his own mother, is put in a woman's prison? A person so dangerous that they basically don't know what to do with that person? And people are clamouring to protect that person's rights, not the safety of the women he has vowed to kill?

Yes, Ireland is a shining example indeed of how women have nothing to fear.

And the reason few people noticed self ID being passed was because it was deliberate, not because it didn't affect people. They tried to do the same in the UK and would have succeeded if women hadn't campaigned so bravely against it, often at great personal cost.

What you have to understand unfortunately is that given that this is a free site (the recent addition of a subscription model notwithstanding). Whenever you use what appears to be a free service the truth is that it was never free YOU are actually the product. The real customers (and whom the site owners are primarily incentivised to prioritise) are the advertisers. If special interest groups target the advertisers they gain indirect control over speech on sites like this.

The guidelines are often impossible to follow, but not because one has fallen foul of any particular moral standard, but because the definitions are purposefully subjective. What is defined as “civil” discourse or “offensive” can be entirely shifted to match the preferences of the advertisers at any given moment.

All is not lost however as some truly exciting technological developments are on the horizon with peer to peer data storage solutions that will eventually eliminate the need for expensive to setup and maintain server farms that keep sites like these running.

It will be as simple as setting up a forum for discussion and adding more and more people with no real theoretical maximum number of members and posts. The internet is on the threshold of truly democratising the digital space, and sites like Mumsnet will either have to move to primarily a subscription model (which will lessen the influence of advertisers) or they will have to rollback the combative attitude for fear of large numbers of product (us), moving towards sites with more coherent, and readily understandable rules, that champion free speech.

In much the same way as print media has been been outcompeted and under pressure from digital actors in the information and discussion space. So too will earlier digital models be put under pressure by newer more agile brands entering the space.

But but but...if you're getting a strike for something you posted 2 years ago, them mnhq have just opened up a whole new way for the monitors to get "problem" posters banned without even having to wait for them to post new stuff??! Fucking hell!

Fucking hell indeed.

Mumsnet, are you really saying we could get three strikes if people trawl through our every post to find something from years ago? Were the rules in place then, and in exactly the same format? That is ridiculously unfair.

@jj1968

Perhaps overly hyperbolic would be a better description. There really is no forced extinction, I feel deeply sad some should be so terrified of trans inclusion and acceptance. I would urge you to look into places like Argentina, Denmark, California and even Ireland where all the changes people seem terrified of are old news. Women still exist, the horror show you imagine has not come to pass, in fact few people except trans people even really noticed things like self ID being introduced.

I agree with jj. I read some of that thread. I gave up at a post along the lines that women are just herds of breeding stock and could be rounded up and killed at any time or similar.

Maybe posters found it cathartic posting; my reaction was this is not good for anyone's mental health. I really don't think many women outside this forum would have recognised what was being described as the world they live in. I wondered if MNHQ had pulled it for that reason.

The deletion is nowhere near as concerning as the new development with strikes. If a post from 2 years back can incurr a strike today, thats..ridiculous, unfair and giving the monitors even more fucking power really

@mnhq what on earth? You're now deleting and banning people for posts which were fine before? Please can you clarify? Thank you.

I posted a response because I felt for those who had written about their own pain. Also, current events are forcing me to confront old traumas that I don’t want to relive.

Mumsnet, erasing a thread about women’s erasure is not a good thing.

I am not a regular poster here but would like to add my concern for posters receiving strikes for historical posts as it is eerily revisionist.

Dido I suppose it depends a lot on your level of privilege and how much you know about what is going on.
Mumsnet taking down a thread where women are discussing their mental health, which was ok 2 years ago is a pretty big illustration.
We’re being kettled.

I would urge you to look into places like Argentina, Denmark, California and even Ireland where all the changes people seem terrified of are old news.

I would urge you to read the several threads on 'Barbie Kardashian'.

I've just posted in Site Stuff about this. Feel free to amend or add to my question!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4056521-3-strikes-rule-for-historical-posts-threads-feminism-boards?watched=1

Abigail Shrier’s book is terrifying on what is happening in Californian schools.

Perhaps overly hyperbolic would be a better description

There are many sites on which people struggling with their gender identity are able to, if not encouraged to, express their feelings however they please. Why is it a problem if women want to talk about their feelings? Why is it 'overly hyperbolic' when women talk about their mental health? Why does a monitor have the right to prevent that conversation from taking place?