Jk Rowling and trans issues... talk to me!

[bunters]

Ok mumsnet, please talk to me. I’ve noticed that the feminist section of mumsnet seems disproportionately preoccupied with trans issues and I’d like to understand it. I opened the feminism chat today and topic after topic related to trans this, gender that

It is an indisputable fact that women suffer horrific domestic violence in this country (and worldwide), at the hands of men. Women are regularly beaten, raped, controlled, murdered and otherwise abused by men every single day. It’s so standard that it barely makes news when it happens, unless the crime is truly shocking.

This whole trans hysteria feels to me like if the government were to start a huge campaign to raise awareness of the dangers of choking on peanuts, while ignoring the huge damage caused by alcohol and tobacco.

JK Rowling has started a bizarre war around the language used to refer women, in the name of women’s rights. With her money and popularity she could have done any number of things to help women in a huge way. What has this achieved, other than pitting feminists against each other? Even if you believe she has a point, surely you can see that whatever ‘danger’ trans people pose to women is minuscule compared to the very real danger men openly pose to women every day?

We all know that men have felt entitled to take what they want when they want for centuries, and they don’t need to dress as a woman to do it. The women gang raped to death (can you even imagine the horror) in India weren’t attacked by men in dresses. I’m despairing of the fact that attention has been diverted from these horrors in such an extreme way.

When I look at my beautiful, tiny daughter I don’t worry about some trans person hurting her, I worry about the very likely situation when a man hurts her. In fact, I’d worry more that she’ll be trans and be hurt by someone before I’d worry about a trans person hurting her. When I walk alone at night somewhere, my mind isn’t imagining trans people waiting in dark doorways to rape me, it’s men. Men being bloody men.

If we accept that men don’t need to be trans and gain access to women’s spaces to hurt us, and we accept that trans people are way more likely to attempt suicide than the rest of the population (and so really are in need of help and protection as much as women), why do trans issues continue to cause such anger?

And if you do feel justified, what tangible thing are you doing to help women, besides moaning on mumsnet and signing petitions?

pedantic

😂🤣😂

Sorry. Slipped out.

I meant accepting that they're women doesn't mean I automatically become less of one.

It doesn't mean I'm suddenly not a woman anymore, or a subset if woman.
I still am one, it's not magically been taken away from me.

It does affect me though. If ‘woman’ isn’t based on biology then I don’t think I am one. How can I tell?

• There you go, better? From what I can gather, just means not trans Kind of like being straight means not gay/lesbian/bi*

The bi bit is better, but the 'just means not trans' is still as false as ever.
So far, it seems to me we've established you don't know what 'Cis' means and don't know or care what a woman is or isn't.

Ookkay, well thought out comeback WTF lol, default playground mode as per

@jellyfrizz

I meant accepting that they're women doesn't mean I automatically become less of one.

It doesn't mean I'm suddenly not a woman anymore, or a subset if woman.
I still am one, it's not magically been taken away from me.

It does affect me though. If ‘woman’ isn’t based on biology then I don’t think I am one. How can I tell?

Exactly. What am I?

fast moving that was to floral

I meant accepting that they're women doesn't mean I automatically become less of one.

Actually, this is where you are wrong. By changing the meaning of the word woman, you are now accepting less protection than you should have. Because you give away women’s sports. Because you give away women’s ability to have females represent their interest in supposedly sex balanced boards, panels and in roles specifically set aside for women (of the female kind). Because you have given away other women’s rights to talk about themselves with accuracy. Because you have given away the right to have our crimes recorded accurately.

You are the gift that keeps on giving Quaggers, you are the one saying that outside birth sex doesn't align with the inside and yet you cannot or will not state what it is that it doesn't align with so come on enlighten us with your great wisdom.

Sure, Quagg. I was helpful to you on the previous page and tried to outline your perspective without any bias or snark. Maybe you missed it.

But yep, laughing at the irony of critiquing pedantry was a bit childish. I consider myself chastened.

@RedDogsBeg

You are the gift that keeps on giving Quaggers, you are the one saying that outside birth sex doesn't align with the inside and yet you cannot or will not state what it is that it doesn't align with so come on enlighten us with your great wisdom.

Yeah, but even if she does that's still not what Cis means.

I'd suggest you read her essay on the subject.

If, after reading it, you have any questions (although it is very thorough, so can't imagine you will), then, if you ask nicely, someone may be willing to use their valuable time to assist you

I meant accepting that they're women doesn't mean I automatically become less of one

I would suggest that accepting males are women means you display only a passing familiarity with reality

good heavens

If, after reading it, you have any questions (although it is very thorough, so can't imagine you will)

Whose, JK's? I already have.

so can't imagine you will), then, if you ask nicely, someone may be willing to use their valuable time to assist you

I don't even know where to begin with that bit lol.
Ask nicely, what do I have to be nice now? I thought that was sometimes frowned on, that we don't have to be nice on here?
Also the assumption that I haven't read it, or if I have and I still haven't "read it right" some wisdomous posters will educate me into "reading it right."
Okaay.

Why do you assume HouseOfGoldandBones was addressing you and not the OP Quaagars?

i mean no one really believes people can change sex right?

anyone who says TWAW is just doing it for the woke cookies

peer pressure: it's a terrible thing people

it can lead to god awful hair cuts and pretending to believe nonsense on the internet

OK, fair enough could quite easily have been to OP (only house will know that really) but whoever it was aimed at, seeing as we're both disagreeing with some "GC" views on here it 'was still telling to go and read and if we ask nicely enough someone might help us "see" better.
Who it was to is irrelevant.

Seeing as the OP accused JKR of starting a war and the women on here not concentrating enough on the causes that she deems more worthy, it is entirely relevant.

@Quaagars

How is me accepting trans women meaning that I'm suddenly a subset of woman?

What do you mean by 'accepting trans women'? What are you 'accepting'?

I meant accepting that they're women doesn't mean I automatically become less of one.
It doesn't mean I'm suddenly not a woman anymore, or a subset if woman.
I still am one, it's not magically been taken away from me.

You are tying yourself up in knots:

You accept that no-one can change sex, woman refers to an adult human female therefore a transwoman is not a woman as they are of the male sex.

Transwomen are transwomen on what basis are they women and why the determination to say they are?

Ask nicely, what do I have to be nice now? I thought that was sometimes frowned on, that we don't have to be nice on here?

It's basic good manners to 'ask nicely' if you want someone to spend time doing something for you. That's got nothing to do with women being expected to submit nicely to their rights being taken away, to women being expected to be kind to abusers etc.

Ffs, this is MumsNet, we teach kids of both sexes to say please and thank you, not make demands.

(The context was specifically 'if you ask nicely, someone may be willing to use their valuable time to assist you')

I meant accepting that they're women doesn't mean I automatically become less of one
It does mean that you have forgotten the definition of 'woman', though.

I haven't.

It doesn't mean I'm suddenly not a woman anymore, or a subset if woman. I still am one, it's not magically been taken away from me.

See this is the problem with people not understanding language.

I am part of the subset of women who are vegetarian. Also part of the sunset who are short.

We are all part of many sunsets of women, but our women's bodies are what unites us into a group that doesn't include men.

If you "accept transwomen as women" you are creating a new group called women made up of women and men. The thing that unites women and men is that they are both humans. There is no common factor that unites women and transwomen that also excludes men. So what you have done is change the word woman to mean person. This isn't helpful at all when people want to talk about women.

Ffs, this is MumsNet, we teach kids of both sexes to say please and thank you, not make demands

Yes, completely agree with you we should say please, thank you, and basic good manners and being nice.
Just pointing out the absolutely hypocritical stance and double standards when it's "GC" posters saying that.

I guess I am never going to get an answer to what outside birth sex doesn't align with inside that determines trans, yet another unanswered question to add to my ever growing list.

@Quaagars

Ffs, this is MumsNet, we teach kids of both sexes to say please and thank you, not make demands

Yes, completely agree with you we should say please, thank you, and basic good manners and being nice.
Just pointing out the absolutely hypocritical stance and double standards when it's "GC" posters saying that.

No, no double standards - did you not understand the context of when expecting niceness is courtesy and when it's abusive?