University Forced to Rescind Transgender Sports Policy

[OldeMagick]

A bit of good news from America

concernedwomen.org/press-release-university-forced-to-rescind-transgender-sports-policy/

The sense of fairness in American sports IS deeply ingrained and yes, parents will see the grave unfairness when their daughters are cheated out of scholarships, recognition and coveted team spots.

I think savewomenssports.com/ does a good job of focusing on the unfairness to girls...sticking tightly to their message of sports so it doesn't derail into ideology.

On their home page, "Save Women's Sports, stresses that defending women in athletics ought not be a partisan nor religious issue."

Yes. This. I feel the issue is being tainted by association. So many left/central/sensible people will think that it's Bible belt bigotted batfuckery and not read beyond the headline. (I know New Hampshire isn't Bible belt but...).

But we don’t have a choice on this - this Biblical women’s group considers it an issue so why shouldn’t they fight it? Why should only selected people of sufficient ideological purity be allowed to say ‘transideology is harmful’? And why would we want that to be the case? We see this already with others critical of the likes of Posie and I am sure TRAs laugh at such division and bickering. The reality is in large swaths of USA is Christian with mainstream Christianity and if they see this as an issue then politicians in those areas may well begin to listen. And if the woke right disagree then they are going to have to start to argue why.

this Biblical women’s group considers it an issue so why shouldn’t they fight it?

They can fight whatever they want to fight, but the reality is movements can fall apart when extreme ideological groups drive them (e.g. Women's March was taken over by activists who refused to let some pro-life groups march and many of us saw that was wrong because we were all marching as women united against Trump's 'grab them by the pussy' election). As a result, women who hate sexual harassment but happen to be pro-life got pushed out of the movement (I'm pro-choice FWIW).

It's not right, but when good issues are championed by any ideological group, they risk losing steam when building coalitions.

Is this group extreme?

But we don’t have a choice on this - this Biblical women’s group considers it an issue so why shouldn’t they fight it?

Of course they should fight it. People should stand up for their beliefs, although when their beliefs are denying women their rights - abortion for instance? Christ I don't know, it's all such a mindfuck.

Is this group extreme

I've actually no idea, but I hate religion influencing any political decision. And tbf region is rarely a friend to women.

Sorry, region = religion

Not all of their views are extreme, but many of them are.

I think it's extreme to advocate for the illegality of homosexual marriage. I think forced birth in all circumstances is extreme.
I think advocating the removal of children from public education is extreme.
I think nationalism without global body accountability is possibly not extreme, but can lead to irresponsible policies that have worldwide impact.
I think their view that 'returning America to the traditional values upon which it was founded' is a gaslighting of the the history of the founding of the United States.

Beverly LaHaye was the founder of this group. LaHaye actively fought against all forms of feminism, including actively fighting against the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA), which, to this day, American women still do not have, which means, we don't have sex-based rights enshrined in federal law. I'm not comfortable aligning myself with the group that denied US women our fundamental rights.

It’s sex discrimination and a shame it needs to be backed up by religious belief

What worries me is that mainstream US feminist groups will see only the activism of the conservative group on this topic and then quickly dismiss the issue of males in women and girls' sports

Are "mainstream US feminist groups" so incapable of independent thought, and so incapable of prioritising women and girls, that they would let their dislike of a religious group to push them towards supporting men competing in women's sports?

That's what you are saying, that they won't think this through for themselves. If that's the standard of mainstream US feminism it's got not hope against men who will always put men's wants first.

No hope, not not hope.

I would support natal female athletes just not competing with TW.

Walk away. See how long the sport will survive without them.

@Carminabubu

Hindus are very tolerant of all religions and do not claim to have the one and only truth. They see all religions as valid but different paths to the same goal, and their codes of conduct enable living together peacefully. Google sectarian killings and riots in India. India’s current PM is a killer version of Trump quite literally. When he was a state minister, some of the most chilling riots in the recent history of India happened under his watch.

Please understand that the examples you cite have nothing to do with the original teachings of Hindusim/Vedanta; in fact, are quite contrary. Just because a person calls him/herself a Hindu does not mean they live according to its principles. Just like with Christianity and Islam.

Here for instance are two of the Sutras of Patanjali, according to which Hindus should live. And that's just a part of it. And some, many, do.

Ahiṃsā (अहिंसा): Nonviolence, non-harming other living beings through actions and speech[47]
Satya (सत्य): truthfulness, non-falsehood[47][48]
Asteya (अस्तेय): non-stealing[47]
Brahmacarya (ब्रह्मचर्य): chastity,[48] marital fidelity or sexual restraint[49]
Aparigraha (अपरिग्रह): Non-greed, non-grasping,[47] non-possessiveness[48]

@aliasundercover

Maybe somebody could start a thread about religion somewhere, and leave this thread for discussion about men in women's sport?

^^ This. I'm sorry for the derail. I only made one simple statement and others have jumped on it. I did have to defend what I said but have no intention of continuing in that vain. Please, @DidoLamenting and others, start a new thread it you want to discuss religion in depth. This is not the place.

@SusannaSpider

But we don’t have a choice on this - this Biblical women’s group considers it an issue so why shouldn’t they fight it?

Of course they should fight it. People should stand up for their beliefs, although when their beliefs are denying women their rights - abortion for instance? Christ I don't know, it's all such a mindfuck.

Is this group extreme

I've actually no idea, but I hate religion influencing any political decision. And tbf region is rarely a friend to women.

Political beliefs don't operate in a vacuum. Philosophical and religious beliefs influence everything. A religious belief that all people are equal in the eyes of God may lead to the political belief that slavery is wrong and should be abolished.

A religious belief that life begins at conception or that the life of a disabled foetus is as valuable as the life of an able-bodied foetus may lead to the political belief that abortion, including late-term abortion for foetuses with disabilities is wrong. A philosophical belief that the life of a female foetus is as valuable as the life of a male foetus may lead to the political belief that aborting female foetuses is wrong, even if the mother does not want to have a female child.

It's not my aim to turn this thread into a debate on abortion. However, I think the majority of people hold far more nuanced views than the press allows for. I don't think that most progressives are burning buildings to the ground in Portland. I don't think that most pro-lifers are calling for ectopic pregnancies to be re-implanted into mothers' wombs (a procedure that doesn't exist), as one American politician recently called for.

If more feminists in the US would join the cause to protect women's sports, the religious element would cease to be a dominant part. This really does need to be a bipartisan effort.

@LastGoldenDaysOfSummer

I would support natal female athletes just not competing with TW.

Walk away. See how long the sport will survive without them.

I'm not sure that destroying women's sport is a handy tactic in a fight to save women's sport and I'm going to have to keep saying this every time this idea comes up

I'm not sure that destroying women's sport is a handy tactic in a fight to save women's sport and I'm going to have to keep saying this every time this idea comes up

It's already going down that road. A roadblock is the only solution.

No I don't agree that it is ok to ask women to throw away their careers, their sponsorship and the sports they love because they are bring colonised. I think we should help them fight that colonisation. Not sacrifice themselves.

The baby must be the focus, not the bath water. There are hypocritical nasties in every religion and sect thereof. All who think, or pretend, they have a monopoly on the truth or in their version of it.

The important thing here is that safety and fairness for the female sex (i.e. girls and women). Who ever fights for that as it is being attacked is protecting it.

A generation of women will lose their right to play (without fear of injury from stronger sex), excel and be rewarded if there is a pause for females. For some their time is now and they will be past their peak if they have to wait or wait out until males cannot muscle in and begin the green light to plunder female sports by the IOC and others. A generation of women will have been robbed with sports organisations complicit in the wrong done.

For anything else, like doping, the IOC don't say they have to wait to see a long report about what degree of advantage new or old doping techniques confer before said doping is banned.

The thing is, if it is not fought against, it may not stop at just one generation of women.

begin the green light = being given the green light.

@EdgeOfACoin I agree with a lot of what you said, but I'm being realistic. If I were a PR rep for a mainstream feminist group I'd caution against giving much press to the CWA group because they'd happily railroad other feminist activities.

Should CWA be allies with mainstream feminist groups working against prostitution, pornography, male violence, fairness in women's sports? Hell yes! How? God, hell if I know. I wish I had examples because if there is one hot button issue that has divided women in there US for a generation, it's abortion.

Again, as the hypothetical PR professional, I'd give press to the non-partisan, non-religious Save Women's Sports initiative. How women get there (homophobic conservatives who believe in strict gender roles OR leftist feminists who believe in sex-based protections) will be different but the issue will get the most support if it's not tied to a religious group OR radical feminist group.

To me it is the silence of the mainstream on women's rights in the US that is the problem.

There are lots of moral topics where the secular and the religious agree but for different reasons. Murder, theft and adultery are bad and should be legislated against for example.

What's ridiculous here is that US centrists are choosing not to speak out about men competing in women's sports.

Only the religious complaining is as bonkers as if suddenly someone decided that burglary is fine, started introducing pro-robber legislation and the centrists just shrugged and said ok.

Hopefully they will look beyond their borders and see the UK waking up while Canada is trapped in night terrors.

I've having a debate with someone (TWAW but not a TRA) on another forum (American) about trans issues and one of the issues I raised was about males in female sport, which this person seemed fine with.

I raised the most extreme hypothetical scenario I could think of - Anthony Joshua identifying as a woman and wanting to box against women - and if they thought that was okay and to my utter amazement they didn't have a problem with that scenario and maintained it would be a fair fight as long as he was fighting a female heavyweight!! Just lost for words.

Ants I think that demonstrates the person has never played sports nor taken physical training seriously. I would quiz them on it and defer to men and women who are in sports.

I have found that both men and women who don't train seem to think that TV is real. Like all that stunt action of people in fist fights is normal. Like they don't know knuckles hurt like fuck if you actually punch someone in the face. Like petite women easily beating up groups of henchmen. Like being fit happens easily in the mode of a 3 minute music montage, not the tremendous mental effort required to train every bloody day whether you feel like it or not, rejecting that cake, avoiding that alcohol, going to bed early when everyone else is still partying.

No comprehension of what it is like to train your body and compete.

The type who go to a few classes and give up because it is too hard and results are too slow but still criticise the participants for being less than perfect.