University Forced to Rescind Transgender Sports Policy

[OldeMagick]

A bit of good news from America

concernedwomen.org/press-release-university-forced-to-rescind-transgender-sports-policy/

Hindus are very tolerant of all religions and do not claim to have the one and only truth. They see all religions as valid but different paths to the same goal, and their codes of conduct enable living together peacefully.

So not so likely to stand up against transideology then.

@Aesopfable

Hindus are very tolerant of all religions and do not claim to have the one and only truth. They see all religions as valid but different paths to the same goal, and their codes of conduct enable living together peacefully.

So not so likely to stand up against transideology then.

Actually no. Transideology would not be regarded as a valid religion. In fact if you look at the basic Vedantic philosophy on which Hinduism is grounded you would find that transideology it totally the antithesis of what is taught there, which actually denies all "identity" as a real thing in itself.

It's true that a Hindu might not choose to get into a quarrel or conflict with a TRA but the philosophy does not agree with the ideology.

A Hindu might try to convince someone with gender dysphoria to look deeper into themself in order to find inner peace and comfort with the reality of their body. Yoga seeks the harmony of body and mind, so a Hindu would look to heal the mind; the mind is regarded as flexible and changeable.

@raddledoldmisanthropist

Hindus are very tolerant of all religions and do not claim to have the one and only truth.

Ha go tell that to Muslims in India. Hinduism has a lot of different versions and, as with any ideology, bigots use it to put themselves above the people they hate.

Modern Hinduism as we see in your example is miles away from the principles of Vedanta on which it is based. What you speak of is a distortion, just as "Muslim" extremists are a distortion of Islam and "Christian" hatemongers are a distortion of Christianity. I always look to the original teaching of these religions and not to modern day twists based on political agendas.

I grew up in a country where these these religions were practiced as they should be and everyone lived in harmony together. We should look at the best examples, not the worst.

We should look at the best examples, not the worst

Really? We should just ignore the appalling persecution of Christians by the Muslim majority in Pakistan?

What you speak of is a distortion, just as "Muslim" extremists are a distortion of Islam and "Christian" hatemongers are a distortion of Christianity. I always look to the original teaching of these religions and not to modern day twists based on political agendas.

I agree completely my only point is that, sadly, no religion or political ideology is free from such distortion.

We should look at the best examples, not the worst

We should understand the cultural context and avoid generalisations. We should oppose all intolerance, doubly so in our own groups.

There is good reason for people wanting to promote women's rights to be very wary of right wing US Evangelicalism- but that does not excuse imaging everyone in a particular group has the same flaws.

They didn't cheat, they followed the rules

Following the rules doesn’t necessarily mean that you're not cheating.

The OED, for example, defines cheating as acting dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.

www.lexico.com/definition/cheat

@DidoLamenting

We should look at the best examples, not the worst

Really? We should just ignore the appalling persecution of Christians by the Muslim majority in Pakistan?

Did I say anything about "ignoring" any atrocity by any group? As said above, all religions have been known to divert from their original teaching, and that's when atrocities begin. They should not be ignored. But at the same time, examples of such atrocities should not be used to define that religion.

Weird amount of derailing going on today, on this and other threads...

@EdgeOfACoin
"Also I think Biblical groups and feminist groups have several areas of common ground, which both sides are probably loath to admit. For instance, I've never attended a church that has been anything less than critical about pornography and it's negative impact on relations between men and women."

"Now, I'm not trying to say that these groups are a hotbed of feminism - of course not. Anyone who has attended any sort of discussion on headship in marriage has to deal with some very un-feminist teachings."

"However, in my view there is more overlap than either side would like to acknowledge and it should be possible to work together on certain issues without demonizing each other."

I absolutely agree that there is overlap; I saw this diagram elsewhere and think it sums it up pretty well. Just as there is an overlap between some religion and transgender ideology - it's not just ?Iraq? "transing the gay away", I think I've read of similar in places like Texas too. Whilst TRAs pushed the 'better a live daughter than a dead son' line, some translated that into 'better a straight daughter than a gay son'.

There are bound to be overlaps. Life is messy.

And I for one am tired of those who prioritise ideological purity over finding common ground. Such purity loses elections and could lose women their rights. I reject those who reject allies because those allies don't agree with you on every damned thing. Hell, I don't agree with family on everything! I don't expect to. I do expect that when people agree on one specific thing they work together on that one specific thing, and not on the things where they disagree.

The OED, for example, defines cheating as acting dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.

They were not dishonest and individual athletes can't arbitrate what's fair. I agree someone with a bit of empathy would not compete in the women's race (and I'm highly sceptical that all of these 'trans' athletes are genuine) but I think the blame should be placed squarely with the uni.

Oh, and one more point - I am deeply suspicious of those in the ideological purity/don't-ally-with-anyone-who's-not-100%-of-your-mind camp. It seems to me to smack of "divide and conquer". Keep us apart, we're easier to pick off individually. United, not so much.

@NewlyGranny

Weird amount of derailing going on today, on this and other threads...

This one is particularly blatant. Get a room!

raddled: They were not dishonest and individual athletes can't arbitrate what's fair. I agree someone with a bit of empathy would not compete in the women's race (and I'm highly sceptical that all of these 'trans' athletes are genuine) but I think the blame should be placed squarely with the uni.

If you’re highly sceptical that all of these 'trans' athletes are genuine, I can’t see why you’re sure that they’re ‘not dishonest’. However, I don’t think we can assume dishonesty, if only because that would probably get us deleted.

When you say that individual athletes can't arbitrate what's fair, I assume you mean that they can’t decide for others. I agree with that, but I would say that unless they’re very young they can and should decide for themselves.

I agree that much – perhaps most – of the blame lies with the schools and universities.
My point is that individuals are not exonerated just by ‘not breaking the rules’

Hindus are very tolerant of all religions and do not claim to have the one and only truth. They see all religions as valid but different paths to the same goal, and their codes of conduct enable living together peacefully.
Google sectarian killings and riots in India. India’s current PM is a killer version of Trump quite literally. When he was a state minister, some of the most chilling riots in the recent history of India happened under his watch.

Modern Hinduism as we see in your example is miles away from the principles of Vedanta on which it is based. What you speak of is a distortion, just as "Muslim" extremists are a distortion of Islam and "Christian" hatemongers are a distortion of Christianity. I always look to the original teaching of these religions and not to modern day twists based on political agendas.
This

Really? We should just ignore the appalling persecution of Christians by the Muslim majority in Pakistan?
This persecution is a huge problem. So is the appalling persecution of Muslims and other minorities in India by Hindus.
These generalised statements show how uninformed an opinion can be when blanket statements become the norm every bloody where.

@howard97A

raddled: They were not dishonest and individual athletes can't arbitrate what's fair. I agree someone with a bit of empathy would not compete in the women's race (and I'm highly sceptical that all of these 'trans' athletes are genuine) but I think the blame should be placed squarely with the uni.

If you’re highly sceptical that all of these 'trans' athletes are genuine, I can’t see why you’re sure that they’re ‘not dishonest’. However, I don’t think we can assume dishonesty, if only because that would probably get us deleted.

When you say that individual athletes can't arbitrate what's fair, I assume you mean that they can’t decide for others. I agree with that, but I would say that unless they’re very young they can and should decide for themselves.

I agree that much – perhaps most – of the blame lies with the schools and universities.
My point is that individuals are not exonerated just by ‘not breaking the rules’

Yeah, I think we are agreeing. They were honest and upfront about the fact they are male- I choose not to have an opinion on whether they are lovely people who genuinely have GD. I think that makes it distinct from cheating but it's a long way from finding their behaviour acceptable.

I do think the athletes (not in this case) who transition just after not making the final cut for top flight men's competitions strain that assumption a bit.

We can't assume that all athletes (particularly younger ones) will always act with integrity- we have to make rules which are fair and accept that when those rules don't work it's the sports job to fix them. Individual motivation is largely irrelevant.

Oh, and one more point - I am deeply suspicious of those in the ideological purity/don't-ally-with-anyone-who's-not-100%-of-your-mind camp. It seems to me to smack of "divide and conquer". Keep us apart, we're easier to pick off individually. United, not so much.

I don't know, feel so conflicted...I am uneasy about aligning with US rightwing Christian groups. These could well be the same people who are picketing abortion clinics, manipulating sponsors to ban perfectly normal TV programmes, campaigning against gay marriage. I just feel their arguments against transgender come from a bigotted place not a supporting woman's rights place. Yes, I get the intersection and the pretty Venn diagrams, but I still personally feel uncomfortable. Would I vote Tory, because they are the only party paying lip service to women's rights? No, I wouldn't.

I don't know, feel so conflicted...I am uneasy about aligning with US rightwing Christian groups.

What worries me is that mainstream US feminist groups will see only the activism of the conservative group on this topic and then quickly dismiss the issue of males in women and girls' sports. As on another thread yesterday, the polarization in the US is pretty strong and Evangelical Christians are often seen as opposed to all things feminist.

@Carminabubu

Really? We should just ignore the appalling persecution of Christians by the Muslim majority in Pakistan? This persecution is a huge problem. So is the appalling persecution of Muslims and other minorities in India by Hindus. These generalised statements show how uninformed an opinion can be when blanket statements become the norm every bloody where.

I'm aware of the persecution of Muslims by Hindus- particularly as a poster had just mentioned it so I'm not sure what point you are making.

The post referring to going back to the original roots of religions and concentrating on the good parts seems utterly irrelevant given the current state sanctioned mass persecutions being perpetrated in the names of Islam and Hinduism.

Maybe somebody could start a thread about religion somewhere, and leave this thread for discussion about men in women's sport?

What worries me is that mainstream US feminist groups will see only the activism of the conservative group on this topic and then quickly dismiss the issue of males in women and girls' sports

Yes. This. I feel the issue is being tainted by association. So many left/central/sensible people will think that it's Bible belt bigotted batfuckery and not read beyond the headline. (I know New Hampshire isn't Bible belt but...).

And does the end result justify the means...

I pity anyone getting between a varsity bound female athlete's parents and her scholarship.
There's no way you coach a child with 5am starts for 10+ years and then let it go to appease a boy.

I feel the issue is being tainted by association.

You just read my mind...on another thread, I made this same point of being tainted by association. It sucks, because it threatens both civil debate AND collaboration, however, some things go dead in the water because of the fear large organizations have of aligning with the wrong groups.