RFU clears TW to play at *all* levels of rugby

[Kit19]

the absolute fuckers!!!

It’s such a shame. Often rugby is a place where women c

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

So it's not safe for 12 year old boys and girls to play together. But it magically becomes safe if they identify as the opposite gender?

This. How can they argue with this?!

The trans juggernaut is swilling with money.

Just thought people would like to see the headline infographic put together by Ross Tucker (lead sports scientist on the World Rugby study).

They looked at I think it was 84 scientific studies of the effects of androgen blockers and cross-sex hormones on performance, including the recent very thorough one by the Karolinska institute. Barring a few outliers among the papers (Joanna "I looked at 8 self-selecting amateur trans distance runners" Harper), the overwhelming consensus was that androgen blockers do not magically undo the effects of male puberty.

So, no, English RFU, we are not waiting for the scientific evidence. We have the scientific evidence. Male bodied humans, no matter how they feel inside their heads, still retain a size, strength and speed advantage over female bodied humans, such that if you insist on them all playing mixed rugby, will put the female bodied humans at a 30% greater risk of serious injury. And - reminder - in rugby, serious injury often means serious spinal injury which can leave someone paralysed or dead.

There is no way of reading your decision other than that you are a complete shower of fucking misogynistic wankers who don't give a shit about safety or fairness, at least not when the people involved are women.

Wasn't this issue being led by one of those misogynistic gay men who has the lead on "inclusion" in the RFU? Talk about male privilege!

Sorry I’ve not RTFT but does anyone know the best way to complain about this/campaign against it?

@persistentwoman

Wasn't this issue being led by one of those misogynistic gay men who has the lead on "inclusion" in the RFU? Talk about male privilege!

I think that was the guy leading the sport England work on transgender issues

This is the link diversity & inclusion committee at the RFU

www.englandrugby.com/news/article/rfu-committed-to-improving-diversity-and-inclusion

I think it would be irresponsible parenting to have your daughter play against or with a biological male, and to have your son play against or with a biological female. And imagine if you were the ref overseeing this.

Barring a few outliers among the papers (Joanna "I looked at 8 self-selecting amateur trans distance runners" Harper)

Harper paper doesn’t even support that TW should be in womens sport because she did not do proper controls so results are utterly uninterpreble.

At the Least you need to have

1. a control group of similarly aged men to show any impact of aging on performance (essential in a long term study). We don’t know if the TW performance went down due to aging or HRT or a combination.

2. a control group of women And or a comparator dataset of women from another study.

3. careful monitoring and comparison of training regimes in all groups under study. Ideally you’d require similar training regimes Across all groups for inclusion of data in the study. Next best would be monitoring and inclusion in a model. But she didn’t even do that.

All studies so far done with reasonable protocols and with appropriate controls have showed that trans women end up in between women and men in all measures relative to athletic Ability. And that parity is NOT reached by 12 let alone 24 months.

They've got the evidence. It's not the evidence. It's what they can get away with

I just admit to being confused here. I keep seeing the commentary that ‘there have been no incidents’. If this is not true, isn’t it time to send in all the letters from people who HAVE experienced injury from a transwoman player. Or did people send this in to World Rugby and it has been ignored? Maybe if anonymity is needed, maybe this is what FPFW need to collect (if they haven’t already).

But I do see this comment all the time ‘But there haven’t been any incidents’. I know from reading these threads it is not true. Is the Additional scandal that the data is being hidden?

And yet they keep citing Harper's paper.
Because the IOC endorsed it, it must be sound, right?
FFS

Its a bit of a circular argument isn’t it wines?

Firstly given the exemptions in the equality act, men should not be playing in women’s rugby no matter how they identify

However we know that there are cases of TW playing rugby not many given the above shoukd have been applied but enough playing or pushing to play that clearly rugby clubs wanted proper guidance.

There is no way that loads of TW should already be playing in the UK because equality act so no of course we can’t produce loads of injured women because TW should not be playing

RFU are asking that we let TW play & then produce evidence of injuries which is fucking outrageous

I keep seeing the commentary that ‘there have been no incidents’.

Partly it’s goalpost moving.

The evidence is now clear that it’s not Fair form TW to compete with women. So TRA now ignore fairness and pivot to safety as the only consideration.

It’s similar to what they do with privacy vs safety for locker rooms etc.

Ffs

And yet they keep citing Harper's paper.
Because the IOC endorsed it, it must be sound, right?

It’s insane. The study is a total mess.

People want to be kind. Especially if male people will be the beneficiaries of said kindness.

RFU are asking that we let TW play & then produce evidence of injuries which is fucking outrageous

It is outrageous. I am merely stating that there seems to be anecdotal evidence already but these organisations are acting like there isn’t. That is has been all great so far so let’s downplay the studies because they don’t matter seems to be the message.

Btw the same type of “no control” studies are being done in the US now. They already know what they are going to “discover”.

The evidence is now clear that it’s not Fair form TW to compete with women. So TRA now ignore fairness and pivot to safety as the only consideration.

Yes I agree that is there tactic. And that like the crimes committed by people claiming to be women being ignored, I was wondering if the injury reports are being ignored.

It would be interesting to gather the ‘on the pitch’ evidence so far if poss.

The ones I have come across so far are Kelly Morgan in a BBC article talking about folding an opponent ‘like a deckchair’ and I think also accidentally broke a coach’s ankle. On here a week or so ago was mention of an army(?) match with a trans player who ‘had the ball funnelled to them’ constantly and I think annihilated the opposition - I think that might have been the same match where there were two serious injuries (?), one career ending - I’m rubbish at doing an advanced search but I’ll try and find the thread in a bit.

There was also a bbc article from a year or so ago where the refs were protesting and some resigned at the safety issues.

It's deliberate disingenuousness. It's like arguing with a gaslighting fucker of an abuser. They KNOW. They just have their reasons for pretending not to understand your problem.

If it's anything like arguing with a gaslighter, which just exhausts you to no avail and gives them a thrill, it's pointless to point out the bleeding obvious.

I think legal action is probably the only language they will hear.

I am so furious I can barely speak. How fucking dare they, after such detailed and considered examination by the WOrld Rugby. They should at the very least challenged the World Rugby evidence to show why they this that it is, in fact, totally safe. It is outrageous.

@Winesalot

RFU are asking that we let TW play & then produce evidence of injuries which is fucking outrageous

It is outrageous. I am merely stating that there seems to be anecdotal evidence already but these organisations are acting like there isn’t. That is has been all great so far so let’s downplay the studies because they don’t matter seems to be the message.

Exactly!! It’s

“give us some incidents”
“Ok here you are”
“No not like that”

This is where TWAW gets us. As TW are women then obviously they should play in female sports. If your mindset doesn't allow deviation from TWAW then obviously there is no evidence that (t)women shouldnt play with women.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

This is where TWAW gets us. As TW are women then obviously they should play in female sports. If your mindset doesn't allow deviation from TWAW then obviously there is no evidence that (t)women shouldnt play with women.

This. This is the root cause of this entire shitshow.

I do not think the targeting of Rugby is a coincidence. Think how many sports there are! And rugby is one of the first to declare?!

Perhaps contact with World Rugby is the way. If there is a schism between World and RFU, then at least we know the people at World Rugby are listening.

A thought just occurred to me , apologies if it’s already been discussed. Suppose a male competitor with a male identity takes cross sex hormones and suppresses his testosterone down to the required level to compete in female sports. He applies to compete in women’s sports but avows that he doesn’t identify as a woman but a man. Would he be allowed to compete and if not why not ? If a male competitor gets his hormone levels to the requisite amount why should a particular mental state that can’t be even proven be the determinant factor?