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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bill Burr monologue on SNL - rants about white women

87 replies

WeeBisom · 12/10/2020 01:38

Bill Burr did a gross misogynistic monologue on SNL, and I think it's an interesting insight into the mind of the average liberal American male. Namely - they are very sexist. This is honestly why the feminist movement in America is on its knees - no one really thinks women are oppressed.

Here's what Burr said:
"white women have...hijacked the woke movement....Generals around the world should be analyzing this... somehow, white women swung their Gucci booted feet over the fence of oppression and stuck themselves at the front of the line...I don't know how they did it. I've never heard so much complaining in my life from white women...
The nerve of you white women! Listen, I don’t want to speak ill of my bitches here. I dont, but let’s go back in history here, OK? You guys stood by us toxic white males through centuries of our crimes against humanity. You rolled around in the blood money, and occasionally, when you wanted to sneak off and hook up with a Black dude, if you got caught, you said it wasn’t consensual. Yeah! That’s what you did! That’s what you did! So, why don’t you shut up, sit down next to me, and take your talking to?"

Of course any woman who objects to this is being called a "Karen".

Some history: in 1993 Catharine MacKinnon published an article called 'from practice to theory or what is a white woman anyway?" In it, she argued that if women are truly oppressed by virtue of being women, then even that most pampered, effete, bon bon eating creature - the 'white woman' must be oppressed also. She revealed a deep assumption in American culture, namely that white women aren't actually oppressed - they are in fact the secret, evil behind the throne; whispering like Lady MacBeth into men's ears to make them oppress others.Black women are oppressed by virtue of being black, and poor women are oppressed by being poor, but rich white women aren't oppressed at all. Women aren't oppressed by virtue of being female, so feminism is a sham.

It's actually admirable how clear Burr is about all this, as he tells us 'bitches' to 'shut up' (nice abusive language by the way.) White women campaigning for their rights and freedom from oppression is framed as 'hijacking', illegitimate, taking something that doesn't belong to them.' 'Somehow' white women swung our Gucci boots (haha because we're also rich bitches!) over the fence of oppression. I really think that women in America are the only oppressed group that aren't allowed to acknowledge and fight against their oppression - their oppressed status is belittled and constantly cast into doubt.

This is coming from a man in a supposedly first world country that has no maternity leave. Abortion rights are precarious and highly contested. Women have to walk past hordes of shrieking crowds to have a D and C. Women cannot get contraceptives without first submitting to a once a year internal examination. American women have some of the worst maternal death rates in the developed world. Women's health care is expensive and not covered in standard insurance plans. Women do not have any kind of equality act to protect them. Three women are murdered by an intimate partner a day in the USA. Many states still allow child brides. 10 year old girls have been married off to older men in the USA in the 21st century. Women are raped and their rape kits lie untested and their rapists go free after two months in jail because 'he's a nice guy and he misses BBQ.' Women have been sexually assaulted and their abuser goes onto become a Supreme Court justice. Women. have been raped and their rapist goes onto to become president of the United States. Me Too showed that some of those Gucci wearing 'bitches' can be raped over and over again for years while Hollywood turns a blind eye. Bill Cosby drugged and raped multiple women, some of them white. Were these women lying about Cosby? If women aren't oppressed then why does it fucking feel like it?

And then he gives us a charming history lesson. Women 'stood by' while men committed atrocities and crimes against humanity. What's the first rule of misogyny again? Oh yes, that women are responsible for what men do. Men did the lynching and the enslaving and yet the blame, once again, is deflected onto 'white women'. And here's a real history lesson - women stood back and 'let' men do these things because women were property. They had no separate legal personality. They were essentially bought and sold into marriage contracts. Black people actually got the right to vote in America before women did. I think people forget that not so long ago women couldn't own property - not even small pieces of sentimental value. They had no legal existence of their own. Men owned their children and could stop a woman from ever seeing them again. Men could commit their wives to mental institutions for life if she became an annoyance. Marital rape was entirely legal.

The cruellest irony is that women are the original victims of male oppression, the ultimate test case, and yet men like Bill Burr have the absolute gall to turn around and say that actually women aren't really oppressed at all and all that evil shit that men did is actually women's fault. Because we 'let it happen', despite having an average life expectancy of 33 due to childbirth complications.

OP posts:
WonderWomaaan · 16/10/2020 12:57

I remember reading an excerpt years ago where a former slave was saying that one of the most common reasons to be mistreated by the woman of the house was jealousy that the husband was directing his sexual attentions on the slave. So they would be raped by the man and then 'punished' for it by the woman. I don't think anybody is saying that women are worse, more that they don't like to acknowledge their participation which is clear on this thread with all the whataboutery.

Men were the worst with white women a close second.

turnitonagain · 16/10/2020 14:32

We don’t have to go back to slavery. There were white women in apartheid South Africa in the 1980s who backed the regime and I’m not convinced that they were so oppressed by the yoke of male dominance.

QuentinWinters · 16/10/2020 18:19

I’m not convinced that they were so oppressed by the yoke of male dominance.
What does this mean?
That because they supported apartheid (like white men) they should suck up rape/domestic abuse/less pay for equal work etc?
Is it only virtuous women who deserve equal rights to men?
I listened to a great podcast about race where they likened the race issues to black people owning the leasehold and white people owning the freehold.
Thats what this sounds like. Men own the freehold and women can be leaseholders if they are virtuous enough (ie not white, with no discernible privilege, no wrong think).

DandyMandy · 16/10/2020 19:21

@kattyboomboom

Also, it's white men/men in general who have painted themselves as the biggest victims in the world and it has always been this way.

Oh, come on. This just isn't true. 😂 Bill Burr is a bit of a nob who fishes for a reaction, but men in general don't play the victim much. If we're to argue that they do, then this is at complete odds with the 'boys don't cry' element of toxic masculinity which tells suffering men to 'man up'.

Suicide is the biggest killer of men and yet they talk about it less than feminists talk about manspreading.

Funny how you didn't bother mentioning how women actually attempt suicide more. If you're so uninterested in feminism, why are you on this board? On another thread you turned a sex based hate crime towards women into being all about how men apparently suffer so much more. We're always hearing about the suicide rate so that's another lie.
BlackWaveComing · 16/10/2020 22:04

I can't get over the Gucci shoe comment.

Men like this preach intersectionality but fail to practice it. No white woman in the US is disadvantaged because she is white, but plenty of white women suffer significant disadvantage.

Has this pig never heard of disabled white women? Poor white women? White women living with daily domestic terrorism? White lesbians? Jewish women who are read as white?

The US progressive space is in full on denial of any form of class politics other than race/trans.

nepeta · 16/10/2020 23:11

@BlackWaveComing

I can't get over the Gucci shoe comment.

Men like this preach intersectionality but fail to practice it. No white woman in the US is disadvantaged because she is white, but plenty of white women suffer significant disadvantage.

Has this pig never heard of disabled white women? Poor white women? White women living with daily domestic terrorism? White lesbians? Jewish women who are read as white?

The US progressive space is in full on denial of any form of class politics other than race/trans.

It's not only class but also sex which are being ignored as axes of oppression among the wokest of progressives in the US, though I have seen class and race discussed as an intersection in reproductive rights. It is sex that was dropped from that intersection for the sake of inclusivity (so we get statements such as "poor pregnant people of color").

I think Burr's monologue was seen as acceptable, even though one could argue that he as a white man was punching down, because the idea that women might be discriminated against on the basis of sex is getting fuzzier.

BlackWaveComing · 16/10/2020 23:15

Yep, agreed.

Burr needs to sit down and read Catherine McKinnon on white women.

WonderWomaaan · 17/10/2020 03:02

What does this mean?
That because they supported apartheid (like white men) they should suck up rape/domestic abuse/less pay for equal work etc?

Surely it means that they should acknowledge their complicity in the mistreatment of POC rather than blame it on men and invoke all manner of whataboutery. The other stuff you mention had nothing to do with the topic of white women taking responsibility for their actions.

WonderWomaaan · 17/10/2020 03:10

Funny how you didn't bother mentioning how women actually attempt suicide more.

I know this comment wasn't aimed at me, but I've got to say I'd rather my son attempted suicide than actually killed himself. I think the issue is that men don't 'attempt' suicide as a cry for help like when I slashed my wrist as a teenager with no real intent to kill myself. They bottle it up and then decide they don't want to live anymore, at which point they blow their head off with a shotgun or jump off the 15th floor.

turnitonagain · 17/10/2020 04:46

That because they supported apartheid (like white men) they should suck up rape/domestic abuse/less pay for equal work etc?Is it only virtuous women who deserve equal rights to men?

That’s not even what’s under discussion here!

When white women are accused of complicity their response should not be “Well actually the men were the racists and we could say anything against it because they were also sexist against us.” There were absolutely white women who believe(d) in white supremacy and enforced it out of their own convinctions, or ignored racial injustice to maintain their own status in society.

There were many white mothers for example marching in the streets in America against school integration in the 1970s because they didn’t want black children sitting next to their white angels. Did sexism cause that?

QuentinWinters · 17/10/2020 08:50

The topic of the thread was how misogynistic Bill Burr was. Not how white women are racist. Hmm

He didn't "accuse white women of complicity in racism". He accused us of "hijacking the woke movement....complaining".

I am pointing out that women have plenty to complain about, whether or not they are racist, or upheld apartheid or anything else that's objectionable.

turnitonagain · 17/10/2020 10:59

SOME white women have hijacked it. He didn’t invent the premise from thin air.

It’s possible to think his monologue was bad and sexist but ALSO consider the points made on their own merits.

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